[00:00:00] and everything that you put in the press conference about Damari was exactly what he said to me at Swansea. He's like, you've got a nice car too young, you've got X amount of wages, you're getting paid, blah, blah, blah. So he said exactly the same thing. So I think from that point I was really struggling to get him back on my side. But going back to the conspiracy stuff, I think it must be about 67 conspiracies that are right, compared to the other ones like the chemtrails that are in the actual UK government website of being, you know, they're in there.
[00:00:28] He was like bringing players, backhanders going on left, right and centre of like the players he looked after and they were no good. You know, I remember when Harry Radknapp was here, we're doing shape on the side of the pitch. He's gone from one to find me two weeks wages to then liking me because I come back into training. I was made to train on my own, running around the pitch. And I just thought, well, after me being one of the main players for a couple of seasons, doing well, I was negotiating the new deal with Rowett as well. So I wanted to stay, I wanted to finish my career really at Birmingham. Yeah.
[00:00:57] Um, cause I loved it here. And then I was then made to train on my own. He was training now and again. He wasn't. Yeah, he was always, he had his own like, you know, um, fitness coach and Spanish like guy who came over from Reds. Yeah, he was in Madrid. Yeah. He carries clubs from on the golf course. Yeah, he like, but he was, um, yeah, he was training in and out. He was like, obviously all patched up for games and stuff, but he was still, you know, well, he's unreal. I think that's what worked works. I think the first game was Watford. I think when we, when he took over, I'm not sure.
[00:01:24] And then Clayton, I think Clayton scored only one one nil, which obviously is, is a great start. And we, and we kicked on. I truly still believe to this day, if he would have been kept on and we signed a couple of players in that January, we would have been promoted. Before we get into this, we're doing over a million engagements a month, but most of you aren't subscribed. If you enjoy the content, hit subscribe and follow us on socials. It'll make such a massive difference. Cheers. Thanks for coming. Yeah. How's the journey? Yeah, it was good. No, it's fine. Used to it.
[00:01:53] Brill. We're, we don't, we're not formal. We don't, um, do massive introductions, but if you can just tell us a little bit about yourself and your playing career, just to kind of introduce and then we'll delve deeper into it. Yeah. Um, David Cottrell used to play on the wing. Um, yeah, I had a decent career, not, not too, not too bad at all. Uh, made my debut at Bristol city when I was 16 and then managed to make my debut when I was for Wales when I was 17. So yeah, I played international football, played in the prem for a little bit and then majority, I'd say probably the championship.
[00:02:23] Class. So we've got the stats here. Over 650 professional appearances, 24 caps for Wales. Yeah. Sound about right. Yeah. When you look back, what are your proudest moments? Um, probably my debut initially, cause every boy sets out to be a footballer. So I managed to do that with Bristol city, which are amazing club and amazing academy. And that was great. But then I think probably making my day before Wales would be number one, I'd say I just want to play for Wales and that's a good question.
[00:02:53] I should know it shouldn't I? I didn't even know. I don't even know. I thought I think it was Azerbaijan actually. Yeah. Azerbaijan in, um, in the millennium, it used to be the old millennium stadium and now the Prince of Palete stadium. Yeah. But it was quite strange making my debut then because it wasn't a full house. We would go through a real bad phase of Welsh football at that particular time. And it was like a 60, 70,000, um, stadium. We, I think we may be lucky to get 10, 15,000 fans to watch those games back in the day.
[00:03:18] Yeah. I can't imagine what that was like with cricket in there. Cause we've been there for obviously the, the Worthington cup final. Yeah. At its peak with the, with the roof. It's a cute old place. It was like playing the only thing I could describe like the old reserve games where you've got like a few fans just lingering around and watching a couple of that. That's what it felt like. Yeah. Cause at the time, yeah. Like you say at the time there's over the last maybe 20 years, well, Welsh football has gone from strength to strength, hasn't it? But I remember a time it was like in the doldrums when it, it was like out of the England,
[00:03:47] Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Wales were probably the minnows really like that. Yeah. We were. Yeah. Some probably, as you say, the last, I would say since 2016, well, maybe a few years prior to that, when Gary Speed took over, we think started to get professional and, and then obviously Chris Coleman come in and we managed to qualify for the Euros. I think the first tournament we qualified was, was huge then to kind of like transcend or take Welsh football forward because it gives you a pot of money to invest in the, in the younger,
[00:04:15] you know, people coming through really to give them a better training, better facilities, which obviously, you know, gives that a little bit more, you know, stability. Game changer. Yeah. So we've got an interesting stat, tell me if it's correct or not. Obviously when you're at Blues, everyone's aware of the financial difficulties we had, but is it right that from the journey to the Euro 2016 with Wales that Blues got a windfall of £350,000 for your club compensation scheme?
[00:04:40] Did they? I'm not sure. I don't know, you know more about that than me. Yeah. Come on Dave, come on Dave. Well, apparently so because yes, I'd heard about those, but is that not something that you as a player? No, we're not aware of those. Yeah, we're not made aware of those. The only thing that I was aware of is when, actually, when I got married, I was reporting back late for training and Gary Rout was the manager when we agreed for me to go on my honeymoon and come back later because when you're on international duty, et cetera,
[00:05:08] you would get given a little bit more time off and then Jan Frank Groszolo was made aware and then we obviously managers were getting changed left, right and centre. And Harry Rednav came in and didn't know what was going on. They tried finding me two weeks wages and I was just like, nah, it's already been put in place. Oh, so the thing you agreed with. Yeah, they were the conversation I had two weeks wages. You just thought, no, no, no, this is, oh, but yeah, because that, it was probably the space of your wedding and your honeymoon. I know, yeah. By the time there was like three managers in there. Exactly. Yeah, it was a bit of, we weren't a very good time.
[00:05:37] So, how did the, we know from when you joined Blues, so you've been at Doncaster, haven't you? Yeah. Was there ever a plan to stay there? Because it was just a one, was it a one year deal that you'd gone on? Yeah, I went there for like, yeah, a year contract. I think I went initially and then my plan was, I left Swansea and I was not really enjoying football at that particular time.
[00:06:00] It was, you know, I was being made to train on my own by Brendan Rodgers. I was like, you know, I was training with like a couple of the youth players when the first team players were coming in. And I was then, yeah, I was in the squad and I missed two penalties back to back. I'd never seen the pitch again. So I was then made to train with like the youngsters. Yeah. Um, which that was quite difficult mentally because you know, you're in the first scene, you're in a round, the boys are going off, they were flying and looking to get, they got promoted that year as well.
[00:06:25] Um, I just, I want to enjoy football. It was, it was tough. Um, and then being made to train with like the youngsters or sometimes on your own, it's not great. I know some fans or anyone who's listened to this might think, well, if I was getting paid extra money, I don't care what they'll do. But when you're in that position, all you want to do is play football. So when that's taken away from you, you don't really think about the, you know, that side of things. That's the default, isn't it? For some fans sometimes. Oh, I don't know why he's talking about mental health or he's talking about this and the area is getting still paid.
[00:06:52] Like you say, it's about your life and what you're doing day to day, isn't it? Yeah. What was the fallout with that then? That system that he played, I thought you would fit quite well. Yeah. That was proper 4-3-3, wasn't it? Yeah. We had, um, I was playing in the number 10 role behind Nathan Dyer and Scott Sinclair at the time. We were struggling for a main focal point of the striker, but everything else was, you know, a really good team. And yeah, I was, I was playing quite, I was playing quite well. I was chipping in with a few goals.
[00:07:20] I was on penalties, as I said, and I missed two penalties on the bounce. And then that was it then. It was just kind of like, well, yeah, but it happens. I don't think he, um, I remember him saying a comment about Damari Gray when he was at Leicester. And he said exactly the same comment to me when he's at Swansea who's, um, you know, you've had things too young and blah, blah, blah. But if you're a youngster coming through and you're doing well, if you're getting offered a contract, you know, I say, oh, by the way, can you keep it away from me? Because it's not the right time for me, you know?
[00:07:50] And he said, everything that you put in the press conference about Damari was exactly what he said to me at Swansea. He's like, you got, you got a nice car too young. You got X amount of like wages, like you can pay blah, blah, blah. So he said exactly the same thing. And then, so I think from that point, I was, I was really struggling there to get him back on my side. But I'll run it considering the way he moved in his career then, isn't it? As a manager. Yeah.
[00:08:11] Um, yeah, I, to be fair, like I've, I've not got anything bad to say about him into his training is probably the best train I've ever had is just always like really, you know, different sessions every day. The intensity was great. Um, but I think he probably thought it was a bit himself as a bit chocolate, you know, he thought it maybe might be better than us and whatever else. But, um, yeah, he did extremely well. He's honestly gone on to do, you know, great things as well. It's just obviously football is all about opinions. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
[00:08:41] Just take it back slowly then. How did you get into football? So I started playing football when I was probably about five or six. I always had a ball at my feet. My brother was playing football with his mates and, you know, older mates, but my dad ultimately was the one who got me into his big Man United fan. And, and then, yeah, just kicking a ball in the street like we all used to back in the day. Not like, well, you know, it's changed now as they're on, you know, video games and wherever else. But I always had a ball at my, up my feet from a young age. And then I got into my first team when I was six.
[00:09:08] Um, luckily in Cardiff, I couldn't get into a team cause it was too young. And they started like seven or eight. So I had to go to Barry. Um, we're obviously Gavin's, they see me up there. So I, uh, went to a team there and then I got managed to pick up by Bristol city when I was 10. But it was quite strange. The game I got picked up in was a game when I didn't score. I used to, I was a striker. I was always really quick and could obviously hit a ball. Um, and I scored ridiculous amounts of goals, but the first game I didn't score a goal, I got, you know, scouted for Bristol city. Strange. Yeah.
[00:09:37] So yeah, I was going to say, were you always a winger? Uh, because we're talking before, weren't we mate? Like watching your high lot real, the way you strike a ball so cleanly. I don't think we've, there's anyone kind of since hits the ball the way you did. So what was that? How, how did you, was it natural talent or was it coaching? How, how did you become such, so attacking minded? How did you find where the net was so easily? I think I was always practicing in the street. I was always like looking for the small gates in people's doorways just to try and like whip them in.
[00:10:06] And I was, I was always playing against older boys back in the day and they would obviously toughen you up. They'd smash you. They wouldn't care. And I think that kind of helps, you know, I think. And then when I got picked up at Bristol city, the academy was great. They were always practicing on different drills. Always a ball at the feet, which is probably what they train like now. But I think they were maybe a bit ahead of their time back then. They always want the ball at the feet. And I think that helped with the coaching, but I was, I could always strike a good ball. Yeah.
[00:10:31] I think, um, it's a bit of natural ability and then, you know, I've worked on it as well, but with free kicks and corners, I was always practicing, you know, after training each day just to make sure I was getting better and, and being more precise with the delivery really. Mm-hmm. It just, it did show. Yeah. Which is the same, weren't we from, uh, from day and year from your time when you were here. So there was Clay, Swartner and then Duke. Yeah. So you must've been an absolute dream for them boys to know.
[00:10:57] It's the game now, in my opinion, for the, for the worse has changed, doesn't it? That everything now is inverted. Everything's very narrow inside forward rather than windows. Yeah. So the delivery of the ball seems to have gone out the game really. I find football boring to watch these days, especially the Premier League stuff. I think everyone's quite robotic. Um, and there's a lot of people who've, you know, have not really played the game and because they've done the coaching badges or whatever else that, and I'm not saying it's not a
[00:11:26] bad thing. I'm thinking, you know, like it could be a good blend just cause you haven't played the game. It doesn't mean you can't name coach cause you can obviously there's good coaches out there who's made it. But I just think they're just, everything's always about the data and about this and about that now. And that they're all looking at the managers, what they're saying and what they're not saying. And it's just so regiment on board and it's just all the same thing. I'm not very few wingers now have gone past a defender, you know, like off the cuff, whipping and across.
[00:11:52] Um, as I say, it's like the other day I seen Turkey was getting abused because he's doing kickups. And I think that's like entertaining and that's like bringing like fans on side and doing different and something different that no one else is doing at the moment. Whereas I do think football back in, you know, a few years back, I probably sound like a dinosaur, but I think it was a lot better and more entertaining to watch. It feels like they've complicated it too much where it's just, I bought a ball, put it in the net, score more and get away with ways of doing that. I mean, sometimes it's come from Pep, hasn't it?
[00:12:22] Who's arguably the greatest manager in the world that anything that he does is then kind of brought down even to the leagues where you haven't got the kind of players that can do that, especially from, from the back and playing out and stuff. And as a fan, we're paying for entertainment. And I don't know, possession football serves a purpose sometimes obviously. But we want to be seeing a bit more kind of the same, not the long balls kind of coming back in
[00:12:49] when it's popular and someone's reinvented the long ball, but that's the kind of football we like where it's attacking events. And yeah, again, I sound like a dinosaur, but we seem to be losing that a little bit. Yeah. That's what I think what happened with the blues when I was there, you know, we had Rarit who we, we had like exciting wingers and obviously played set up front and we brought in Juki and obviously good strikers. Clates was very quick, very powerful. Um, and then you're obviously me or Damari or, you know, McGomar on, on the wings. And it was, and we had like a number 10.
[00:13:18] It was, we had good number 10s. We had a good team. Yeah. And then when you want to try and bring in total football, when you got, don't have the players that are used to playing that is it, you know, things can't happen overnight. It takes time. And yeah, I think that's what the issue was as well. Yeah. So from, so the season you're at Doncaster. So you knew, were you, as that's coming to a close, when were you made aware of, or was the interest from blues after that finished? Cause I know they told me a transfer embargo didn't you? Yeah. So you being a free. So it's quite strange.
[00:13:46] I was always linked with Birmingham as a, as a kid as well. When I was in Bristol city's academy coming through, I was always like, Oh, the first team always like had that kind of like links. And I thought from a, you know, perspective of like Birmingham was not so far from Cardiff kind of thing as well. That could be quite wild. And I always seen Birmingham as a big club and things like that. I did. I went to Doncaster just to find my love for the game. Dean Saunders, the manager, he was the Welsh coach as well. And I knew I'd have, you know, a little bit of love and probably that I needed that time to start enjoying football again. Um, and we wanted to get promoted.
[00:14:16] We went there and I probably used it. Um, are you, they use me just to probably, I'd much use them just as like a stepping stone. Really? I just want to go back to them, you know, go forward. And ultimately they gave me amazing season where, you know, we got promoted on the last day of the season. I don't know if you remember that. And when Brentford, um, hit the crossbar and we went from, we're going to go from third, uh, first, a third if we lost in the playoffs. And we ended up obviously Copping just scored and we were champions, but we had an amazing group of lads there. Everyone was like really together.
[00:14:45] Um, and then, yeah. And as soon as the interest came in from blues, uh, you know, I wanted to go to kind of like further myself to cement my place in the Welsh squad more than anything. Cause obviously Birmingham is a bigger club in the champ. Um, and it was just the best move for me. Yeah. What was the first conversation with, uh, with Saunders? Yeah, he was, well, he, um, he actually left, he left, he went to manage Wolves and then got sacked. He was trying to get me to go to Wolves. So he says, you never know why. You never know if he's fucking telling the truth or not.
[00:15:15] Um, so yeah, he, he went to Wolves and then, uh, we had someone else take over just, you know, Dick off come in. He was, he's a good guy. It just didn't work out for him in the end, but yeah, ultimately I wanted to get, and I wanted to get close to Cardiff as well for my children. So it made, made it, you know, made sense for me to come to Birmingham. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good old commute. Yeah. Yeah. What was your first impressions when you got here? Yeah. I loved it from the time I got here. Um, quickly realized it was obviously a lot bigger club than, than, uh, Doncaster of course. And yeah, it was great.
[00:15:45] I think, you know, Lee Clark was trying to bring in a few fresh faces because I think he was struggling at the time of trying to get, you know, a few of the older players out and so on. So it was kind of like a little transition period, but yeah, he was great. I'd, you know, I wouldn't have been here for unless he brought me in here and yeah, it was good. I, I liked it from the start we got on here. I think everyone's got their different views on, on Clarkie, but he was, he was great for me. Oh, Paul Robinson said the sound of the make- Oh, good things. Like Clark.
[00:16:11] He was great for us, you know, like he would, his old school mentality, he had a good playing career football wise. And yeah, you, you want things very simple. You take, you know, pressure off us as well. And the Buffs, oh, need to kick up your ass, need to kick up your ass. We're, we're here to win, not to, you know, you know, just take part. Yeah. Well, Paul was saying, well, I need the, the, the different pressures because he's from managing himself. He was saying looking back the amount of, of white that Clark was carrying. Yeah. The whole club away from football as well.
[00:16:40] So then to still be able to come out of a smile on your face and try and G the lads up. There's no small thing. Was it? Yeah. What was, what were your experiences or knowledge of what was going on beyond the scenes here at that time? I didn't really know too much to be honest. I think there was like some of the boys who were still left from the, the prim days were still on big wages. Um, and they were trying to ship them out and it's not, it's not an easy task. He's cause if you're on certain wages and you're sitting there, you're not gonna, you're not gonna leave. Um, cause they might not get those wages elsewhere.
[00:17:06] So you can understand the player's perspective cause it's a short career, but from Lee Clark's point of view, he's trying to build the club up. I certainly gave Damari his, his debut, uh, you know, he's done a lot of good things as well. I know he was getting stick from the fans, which you probably go into if you're not finishing, you know, in certain places in the division when you're deemed as like a big club. Um, it sounded good down well, but I thought he was, I thought he was good. He tried bringing everyone back together and unfortunately went on like a run of bad results and then, you know, he left, but yeah, I was, I didn't have no problem with him.
[00:17:35] I thought he was good, good for the, well, good for me cause he brought him here and then good for the boys as well. So, so obviously then from fans and we got limited information about the position the club was in with the owners and stuff. Did that, was you aware of that day to day? Did it affect your, your train, your head space? Did you see it affecting Lee Clark or was it kind of just hunched together and it's us against them kind of mentality? I'd say I don't know. Um, yeah, we don't really get involved in like the owners side of things.
[00:18:04] We ultimately were, it's down to us to deliver on the pitch and, and that's it. We didn't really pay attention of Lee Clark might have been in the boardrooms having these meetings. Of course he would, but I'm not sure how much he had to say on all that kind of stuff. His job is to manage the players he's got in front of him on the training pitch. And we were just, we wouldn't get involved in that. We just wanted to do what's best for the club and, and ourselves to, you know, perform and get the three points. So that was our main objective. Obviously every game. Yeah. How long was the year while, when it was a so-and-so? He wasn't here long. He wasn't here long. No.
[00:18:34] He, um, maybe a few months. I see a brief intake of breath cause you know, we're getting onto managers. Yeah, I know. It's hard to jog the memory. I know. It's like, you know, but it's difficult for a manager because you can never please everyone. And again, it's about opinion. Some of the players might like the manager, some, some of them not. That's just the way it is. But of course, if you're playing, you're going to like him a bit more and you tolerate him a bit better when you're not playing, you know this shit. That's when you've got an issue. Yeah. So we're saying, so he's, he's at the door then Gary comes in. Yeah.
[00:19:04] Um, so again, yeah, highly, highly thought of still not accounting for obviously, uh, the relegation. He stepped in. That's a different thing. His first tenure here. So he was holding very high regards still from fans. Yeah. So what was, what's the kind of chine to stall and everything else then from Lee Clark to Gary Ravick? I think we were just more organized in terms of the defensive unit. Um, I think you might have changed like a bit of personality as well. Like some of the boys who are not in the squad or in the team, you bring a couple in this
[00:19:34] like freshens their ever bit and give them a second chance. But I think he was just like really, you know, regimental on the terms of like, he's very organized, knew exactly what we wanted as a team. And also we were not playing so open. I think we maybe had the arrogance before that we could just outplay other teams and we weren't probably good enough to do that. We were, we had to have, we were hitting people under counter attack when route was here, even at home games. We'd still not have that ego just to like sit back and then we'll break people down. Um, I think that's what worked well.
[00:20:03] Cause I think the first game was Watford. I think when we, when he took over, I'm not sure. And then Clay, I think Clayton scored only one, one nil, which obviously is, is a great start. And we, and we kicked on. I truly still believe to this day, if he would have been kept on and we signed a couple of players in that January, we would have been promoted. Um, but the owners are different. No, but yeah. But with that, did we have the resources to sign anyone that January? Well, we were struggling. We were on about bringing obviously a couple of players in permanently, especially we were
[00:20:30] always looking for that number 10 and we had a couple of decent ones like, you know, John Terrell, and I don't think we could afford them at the time or whatever was going on. Um, but he would have been perfect. And obviously we brought in Diego later on a later date. And, um, but I thought John never worked out over, did it? No, it worked out the second time. Yeah. Um, sometimes that, that happens, you know, but then I think Terrell was the missing part to the jigsaw of that. If we could have got him over the line, I think it would have been good for us. Few people have said that.
[00:20:58] Um, fitness has been mentioned as well, that Rowett was mad on, on fitness and getting Ryan because I think I remember with Lee Clark and stuff, we'd tie it off a little bit towards the ending games. Whereas Rowett then got the players like super fit. And it was at the end of games then where we tended to snatch the wins, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So I would sit and we'd be tentative and kinder. And then, yeah, we were always really fit. We're always like doing lots of like running, like the training was like intense.
[00:21:25] Um, and even before games, you know, is it was on, on the button, which I think it has to be. If you're at like elite kind of like levels in terms of any sport, you need to be on it. Um, and I think we always felt like we would run over teams as well. Our fitness would play a huge part later on in games. And we just, you know, if we stayed in the game, we'd always nick a goal. Clayton would nick a goal. Damari could do anything at any given time. Obviously Jack McGon was good, you know, good player. He could do something or like a set piece. Um, so yeah, we had like a lot of good things that were going on.
[00:21:54] We just, I think we have a couple of signs just short of doing something special. Yeah. So from kind of, uh, emotion in football up and down, Doncaster, you're part of the promoted team. Blues, you're part of the great escape. Yeah. What was the, uh, what was that lot to be around going down to Los Stans? I was actually, I was still at Doncaster when you, you guys stayed up. I think we actually, I was, I think I was leaving Doncaster. I'm not sure if we got, they got relegated and I come and signed here. I believe. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:24] One of Birmingham because Caddy's good. Yeah. So I joined the, that summer after that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, so we've, so joining then as well. Yeah. You talk about characters Caddy's was a character down there. Who was you kind of straight in? Did you know a few of them from before? I knew Neil Eardley cause he was obviously in the Welsh squad. Yeah. Um, but I, I didn't, I just knew a few of the boys from just playing against them, obviously, you know, competing against you there every other week or wherever it might've been.
[00:22:53] You scored some goals against us. Yeah. I scored a couple of games. Yeah. I got a screamer for Doncaster here actually. But yeah, I probably, um, when I first signed, I just, I got them well straight away with Kleds. I think cause we were both new signers at the same time, Mark Duffy as well. And, uh, Darren Randolph, I think I, yeah, we were like pretty close and we had, we had a good group of boys as well. They were like more Michael Morrison was my roommate eventually. And then obviously got on really well with Paul Robinson, but we had like an old school kind of group.
[00:23:20] So where we'd like the drinking culture was still there where we'd go out like once a week on a Tuesday or Wednesday. And yeah, that was still kind of there, but it filtered out towards the end. Yeah. But yeah, that's a, that's a great nucleus of characters there. Yeah. You talk about characters in football and what you need to survive this, a bit of steel in the team. Yeah. There's a lot of characters there that can, including yourself, just grab it by the scruff of the neck and say, come on, let's do it kind of thing. Yeah. We had, we had really good, we had a good dressing rooms. We didn't have like no idiots about it.
[00:23:49] It was just like everyone wanted to work hard, do what's best as a club. And I think that's what really, we were a close group. Yeah. It's missing this, this day and age as well, particularly down here sometimes, but it seems to have been lost a little bit in kind of, in translation that the, the kind of grit and how much you're allowed to do it on the pitch now is another thing, but when we're talking to Robbo and stuff, like a tackle going in, that's it then you're all up and it's like a goal. I know we said that. It was 15 bookings a season, wasn't it? But yeah.
[00:24:19] So when you're playing a lot of your goals, I think all your goals were from 25 yards out. Plus is that something you do in training or is that something like, I'm just going to go for it. Cause now it looks as though no one really shoots. It's lost art in football, isn't it? 25 yard screamers. Everyone wants that perfect goal. They cut back or whatever, like the try and the lapping kind of, yeah. I think, yeah, I was always just used to have a hit. You know, my dad always used to say, for sitting like, you know, in distance, have a go.
[00:24:48] And I was always just like, yeah, just have a go for it and just go for it. You know? You had like a little neck knuckleball technique as well. I used to practice that. Yeah. I used to have, well, me and Bale, we in the Welsh squad, we'd always practice hitting the valve and get a knuckleball going on. But I could always like strike a good ball, which obviously helps, doesn't it? If you're having like a shot from distance or whatever. Well, even if the keeper spills it, then you're leaving it on for someone, aren't you? But the keeper never spilled yours. There's no one near him, most of them were. There was one, like I said it, and the keeper's like over the other side of the goal thinking like, where's it?
[00:25:18] Yeah. You've done some up with it. It's a one-three kick you, but you put it at the post that he's on, didn't you? Yeah. And just put him on his arse and just fell over. Yeah. I think that was Huddersfield, I think it was where, yeah. And we were, funny enough, we were like, we were losing, I think one nil and we had to get a minimum of a point. Otherwise, Gary Rowe wasn't going to give us a day off. So when I scored late, the boys were like, yeah, we know we can. We'll have days off for a few beers. And who was it? Was it Fulham? Who was the free kick? Pretty much corner-ish.
[00:25:48] Yeah. Fulham. Yeah. Fulham. Yeah. And just went far post. Was that a cross? Yeah, it was a cross, yeah. I was like, yeah, I was aiming for the far post. But you get them on top. Yeah, if you take a free kick, if you aim for the far post and everyone misses it, it's going to go in. Or you get a slight little glance and then they get a goal. That was always what I practiced. That was always what I was told. If you're taking a free kick, aim for the far post and with a bit of pace on. Yeah. You missed your place in this Arsenal team now, didn't you? I know. And now I've got a set-piece coach to teach him that. That's crazy, isn't it? They all go and celebrate with the set-piece coach because you put the ball to the back post.
[00:26:18] Yeah. Mind-boggling. It's not rocket science, is it? Do you look at football and see that now and how it's gone around in a circle and set-pieces, long throwings? The one I can't get over is when you take the kick off and they're now hitting it like a rugby kind of tactic. Yeah, just to give them the... They take the throw and then you've got some in possession and then you're obviously on the attack. I can understand that part of being on attack.
[00:26:45] I think too many cooks in the kitchen where it's like, just, you know, we want to be different. Or we want to do this. I'm going to do that. Whereas as what you said before, like Pep has brought in such a, you know, philosophy. Philosophy. Yeah. Everyone thinks they can do it. They can't destroy English football. Yeah. Well, in the best way. Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? Because he's obviously amazing what he does and it's not his... Because he's a genius. Everyone's trying to follow what he's doing.
[00:27:13] But ultimately most, some of the players at the lower divisions, they can't do what, you know. The rest can set their arse to play out from goal kicks and stuff and they're just headers and hoover. Like school football has gone a little bit hasn't it? Yeah. When you were little, the golden rule was, wasn't it? Do not play the ball across your own box. Yeah, across your own box. Whatever happens. Yeah. And that's not actively encouraged. But the academies, that's what they're teaching, isn't it? And even if you get the ball taken off you and concede, we do it again. Don't worry if you concede. Yeah. But then he dupes everyone then by signing Haaland and bringing number nines back and all
[00:27:41] of a sudden everyone's like, oh, where's that number nine we had? Oh no, he's turned into an eight now or an 11 and we've turned him into this and a three with the Spain not playing a striker. Oh no, we need some number nines and that's why now I think England suffer a lot with it, don't they, on the national side? Yeah. Because bar Kane, in my opinion, there's not someone who can go into that as an out and out number nine. No, Kane's a freak though. No, he's class. He's top level. He's a incredible player.
[00:28:11] The idea to move abroad and become a better player. Yeah, he's class. It's nice he was able to win some trophies as well. I know, yeah, because I would have dampened him, wouldn't it? Oh God, yeah. Yeah. So international football, tenuous link. So tell us about that run. That run, you scored against Cypress in the qualifiers, didn't you? Yeah. Euro 2016. Yeah, we were, to be fair, I was out of the squad for a little while because obviously I wasn't playing at Swansea and it was, I went to Doncaster and managed to get back in the squad. And even like a couple of my teammates were like, you've done well getting back in the squad.
[00:28:40] Because some players who go missing for a year or two, they don't ever get back in. So I had to knuckle down. And I knew I was always good enough to be in the squad. I had 24 caps. I should have had, I probably should have had about 80 to 100. I would have thought of, I'd made my debut when I was 17. But I had like Bale, Giggs and Bellamy and I was always seen as like maybe a striker in that sense as well. So, and then Ramsey, obviously the formation we used to play with a box midfield, you know,
[00:29:06] Chris Coleman would say, look at the position that Bale and Ramsey were in. I'm like, I'm definitely not getting the game because obviously there's levels to get up and there's levels to the game. But some of the other boys, I thought I'd won Toshak was manager and so on. I thought I should have had a lot more caps. The amount of trips I used to go on and wouldn't get on. And it was quite bizarre because you always wanted players to be playing at a higher level. And at the time I was in the Prem and you, you know, you get players, you get players in
[00:29:35] like League Two or sometimes maybe even in the Welsh Premier League, who would come in and then you just like, what's going on here? Yeah, I think. So I should have had definitely, you know, a lot more caps. Did you ever conversise with the manager at that point? There's no other conversation with Toshak. He was, I'm grateful he gave him my debut, but his ego definitely wouldn't have allowed that at that time. And to be fair, he gave a lot of, a lot of the journey probably started with him because he said, look, you know, we need to give all these youngsters a chance to get all these
[00:30:05] caps, build up the, you know, kind of like international football experience that they need. And he's the one who started it off. We were not professional at all though. We were like, we were going away. We have like fucking Chinese food and Indian food and, and Bellamy and Giggs were just like, what's going on here? It's the same way Roy King probably talks about Ireland as well. Yeah. Those who used to think about Welsh football, you know, and Toshak used to say, well, no one wants to be here. Just make him happy. He used to take us to like San Sebastian to be red wine or on the table and fucking supposed
[00:30:35] to be training the next day and, and playing that. Yeah. So yeah. So it used to be a bit of a shit show. Uh, and then soon as speedo come in, it was, it got really professional. And cause obviously he was, he's probably the, him and Bellamy, I'd say the best professionals I've ever played with. And he was just like on it all the time. So you brought that professional element into it and then things started to progress with Welsh, you know, slowly, but surely. Yeah. I was going to say at that point, because he was, is it easy to play for coaches that in your
[00:31:03] lifetime have been a great footballer that you've seen? Cause obviously Gary speak was class, wasn't he? Um, he's easier to be coached by someone that you've seen that, you know, they've got the, they can back it up rather than managers that come in. You don't know anything about them. Um, yeah, you see that we had obviously Zola here and sometimes I laughed at one training session with Zola and like with speedo, he's my teammate at Sheffield. So we had like, he was, he was amazing to me. He was like, he was class.
[00:31:30] We used to travel together from Manchester over to Sheffield and we had like a car school. So I, I've always had that respect for him. And when he was coaching, he was, you know, everything he was saying was, you know, said for the best of the team really. Um, but when we had Zola here, you know, going off that, he's obviously one of the best players played in the Premier League history, but he was asking players to do stuff that they couldn't do. Um, you know, I remember we doing a training session. He pinged the ball out to me and I crossed it for, um, for Sel, Isaac Vassell when he was here.
[00:32:00] Um, and I crossed this hit his shin and he's, it's gone wide and he just, and Zola's gone mad. He's like, what is this? What is this? And so he's done the same thing. I'd cross this. I'm not even a good cross outside the box and he's volleyed it to top corner. And he's like, well, this is what I'm laughing. He pulled me off the train. He's like, why are you laughing? I said, like, you're, you're one of the best players in the Prem basically. And you're asking players to do stuff that they can't do. Like what are you supposed to do that? There's, there's levels.
[00:32:28] And, um, and then we just, I think his coaches were always on a useless, fuck me. The one of the worst coaches I've ever come across in my life. He was just literally, was that, that was his name? A big tall Italian guy. I think Digger mentioned. Yeah. He's Gabrielle or something. I think, oh, was it Gabriel? Digger said, I don't know if you were previous to this, but Digger said, um, Zola would take your training and do your shape and stuff. Oh yeah. And then the coach, the coach, the coach would pull you in the hotel room. The coach would be like, come up to the hotel room.
[00:32:56] He'd be like, don't do any of that. And everyone's, I think it was more the central midfielders here at Glees. And they go, don't do that. Do this. So they're doing shape and everything on the training. The knees taking them up and going, nah, do this. Not before the game. All that would be crazy. Well, he used to want us to, we just do an intense training session for hours. Cause like the Italian way is that you train a lot longer. We went from doing training with like high intensity with routes, then standing out there for hours nonstop. And then when you're drinking on your water, he wants you to jog on the spot while you're
[00:33:26] on your water. And so little things like that. And I'll be like, fuck off. I want to drink of water. I'll stand still. I don't need to be jogging on the spot. I never heard of him anyway. It was a bit strange. So it was just a lot of things. Yeah. There's a lot of things going on that just would just irritate in the players. And then we just went, but as I say, we went from literally playing counterattacking football being, you know, really organized to literally shit show being free and asking players to do stuff that they can't do.
[00:33:56] I was going to say, cause that was a complete change of systems. I wonder what, what were you being asked to do in that system then? Well, I originally I was in the team and I got taken out and then you're bringing in players who were, in my opinion, wasn't better than what we had. Um, but there was backhanders fucking going left, right and center, you know, with, um, I can't remember the agent's name. They got the, the, his dad used to own Arsenal. Uh, not David Dainson.
[00:34:26] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was like bringing in players backhanders going on left, right and center of like the players he looked after and it was doing, they were no good. You know, I remember when Harry Redknapp was here, we're doing shape on the side of the pitch. He's gone from one to find me two weeks wages to then liking me. Cause I come back into train. I was made to train on my own running around the pitch. And I just thought, well, after me being one of the main players for a couple of seasons doing well, I was negotiating the new deal with Rowett as well. Cause I wanted to stay, I wanted to finish my career really at Birmingham. Yeah.
[00:34:57] Um, cause I loved it here. And then I was then made to train on my own. And then you come in and you like expecting to hit the ground running of like first team football. It's hard when you've been out for a little while, it's hard to then get going. But he, he signed, um, one of a midfield player. And he was like saying, Oh, what do you think of him then? Like we were doing a shake with no pressure on the ball. I said, well, I cracked the joke. I said, my mum could fucking play in the midfield because no pressure on the ball. He said, Oh, well, I've given him 40 grand a week and I've signed the wrong player. I'm checking. Oh yeah. John under the cost. Yeah.
[00:35:27] Awful. Awful. And he was a nice guy. And I don't want to speak about players like that, but he was a real, real nice guy. But he's come to a foreign country, which wasn't easy for him. He must've saw he's hit the jackpot. Cause honestly, he was. And then that was, that was the juxtaposition of that though. That we've row it. I think we've had one and a half million for Fabrini, didn't we? Yeah. We haven't spent any money. So that was like, wow, this got, it's got, and it didn't work. Yeah. So the pressure was on. I think that was half the talk at the time, wasn't it? That if there is money coming in, will they trust row it with it? Yeah.
[00:35:57] Because of what he spent so far. Why not? He's only spent one and a half million on. Yeah. Diego was a good player though. Diego was a good player. It just didn't work out for him. No, but you had that situation and then Rowit's gone. And then Zola's there. Yeah. For a moment. He's gone. Harry comes in on a rescue package and. They just kind of like. The floodgates open. The bank's open. There's money that wasn't available before. And I think obviously like Digger, Digger was obviously doing, playing really well. He was a good player for obviously Blues. Had a good career here.
[00:36:26] And then Shea, obviously they were, there was links with him. He was on fire. And I think those two boys, they were given contracts just to keep them here. Probably more than what they would normally pay otherwise. So do you? Yeah. Um, and I think Digger signed a couple of contracts in a very short space of time. And obviously good for him. He's that he did well, you know, but. Players like him deserve the contracts, but we were bringing in other people who didn't probably deserve to be signing for us. Like some of the boys who'd come in couldn't believe their luck, how much money they were getting thrown.
[00:36:54] Um, because other teams wanted them. Um, and then we were signing them. I think Jota was going up to boards Middlesbrough and we offered him an extra five, 10 grand a week to get any turnaround on the motorway to come back. Well, Harley said, didn't they? That Harry said to anyone else you'd recommend. Yeah. And so Jota, Anand. Maxim. And Maxim Colum. Yeah, Maxim's a good player. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Jota didn't work out for him. No, he's technically good. He just wasn't technically.
[00:37:20] I don't think the club we, um, we suited is maybe, you know, the way he was his style as a player, but yeah, it was a shit show. It was literally a shit show when, as soon as Rauer left, it was a shit show. What does that do in the dressing room then? When all of a sudden people are coming in on these life changing sums to the original to the nucleus, it's already there. It causes an unrest really, but it was causing unrest anyway. Cause when me and Clayton were signing different deals and we were like the top earners and blah, blah, blah. We still players are still like, you know, they got one eye on you then.
[00:37:48] And there's cause a little bit of unrest cause they then want to go in for a new deal and so on. So you do have that little bit of, um, I wouldn't say jealousy, but they want what's best for their families as well, which, you know, is, is right. They, this short career, but when we're bringing in players that we used to target to play on when we were playing against them and then we're bringing them in for more money than what. Yeah. And they can't believe it. It's gotta be frustrating. It's frustrating. I'm not, I'm not one for, I'm not personally one for click bite. And yeah. And these kind of engagement, but you gotta, you gotta tell us at least one of them.
[00:38:18] Who, who, who, who were you targeting that then came in on massive money? I can't tell you that. I can't tell you that. I can't tell you that. We'll cut you that off the nose. Off the nose. I got, there was loads of them. Everyone. But like, we, we were like, I just, I just couldn't, yeah. Well, it was strange. We were just, um, yeah, I can, well put it this way. We were looking for, to get promoted. We were looking, you know, we should be signing maybe players from on the loan from a Premier League club or, you know, and we, we weren't, I just don't think.
[00:38:45] Um, and it's quite strange how there was no money for Rowett to bring in those players. Then all of a sudden, what, you got a pot of money. Well, that's why we was in the shit afterwards though, isn't it? Yeah. We were spending money that we didn't have. Yeah. It's quite, it's quite funny there. Oh, Redknapp. Cause we went to, we done, uh, evening at Edgbaston, didn't we? When he first signed. I think there was a World Cup game. I think. He's got his game and he, he done like an introduction singing Keeper Art and all that. And it was brilliant to that one. And you see him now, like I'm a celebrity and all that. He plays the game very well. Yeah. His persona of art. That's a personality.
[00:39:14] I'm just old, old Harry. I don't know what's going on. My dog's my accountant, but he's a very shrewd person. Yeah. Oh, he's yeah. He's a businessman. Yeah. And having, and having Redknapp come in as a player, I imagine galvanized, you just think he's a, he's a legend, isn't he? Yeah. He's a legend. He's had a great, well, you can't lock him. He's, he's managed for many, many years in Premier League, hasn't he? It's like, he's had a great career. But you have to, you know, you have to ask questions why he decided to come at like his age as well to Birmingham and such and such. Cause nobody's, you know, linked with Premier League jobs, isn't he?
[00:39:46] And maybe he was, I don't know, he should have had like maybe younger coaches around him if he brought him, but I remember we were doing like a drill out there and he was like, I just want you to do such and such by tactical wise. And Steven Gleeson said, Oh, what do you want us to do? And he said, I don't know. Just, just do it. So he didn't really have any tactical knowledge to pass onto you that you think you're a Premier League manager as a legend. Yeah. You know, give us some tactical knowledge. You've, you know, you've coached Bale, you've coached Modric, et cetera, et cetera. Or you've been a big club like Tottenham. But it turns out that was just doom, wasn't it?
[00:40:15] And I thought you have to sometimes question it was the coaches who were doing the coaching and he was just, you know, managing those kinds of like egos, which it happens. Cause you know, Roy Keane says a lot about Fergie. He was managing, you know, the players and he had coaches to do the rest. And you know, of course I'm not saying that's if it was good. Yeah. It works. But we just didn't have the coaches then to kind of like take us to that, to that level that we should do. And it was a bit of a shit show. We had players who were brought in probably one as good as what we had there.
[00:40:44] Then it was players who got shipped out, you know, including myself, et cetera. You then thinking what's going on here. And it just causes a little bit of a, you know, divide in the dressing room. Not as we're arguing or anything cause we're all together, but just a little bit of like division where we don't know what's what we don't know. Cause some players are playing the Rowett's way, then Zola's way, then Radnapp's way. And it's just like, there's, yeah, it's too much going on. Yeah. Too much. As fans as well. We're just like, we're in the dark and we're already drip fed from the evening mail or from online or whatever.
[00:41:13] And we're just like, we're in disarray as well. The world of football is taking the piss out of you at night. Offering fans out on the car park. It's just crazy. Cause I was, I've told this stories a million times, but I was negotiating a new deal with Rowett and I was wanting to stay and we were going back and forth for like a few weeks. Cause obviously I wanted the best money that I thought I deserved at that particular time. Yeah. Because as I say, it's a short career. You want to make the most and you want to be the best, et cetera. And yeah, we would negotiate a new deal.
[00:41:43] And then Zola came in. He's like, yeah, we want to keep you. We want to give you a new deal, blah, blah, blah. And then the last day of the transfer window, he said, you need to leave. If you don't leave, then your life is going to be made hell. I've been told to tell you. So Zola said. Yeah. And I knew that wasn't him cause he's a nice guy. He was definitely getting told above cause Zola wasn't like that. He's a nice guy. Even if he's not, even though he's not playing you, you know that he's like, he's nice humor being, you know? And yeah, you could just see it wasn't in his nature to be a, be a dick like that.
[00:42:13] So that's coming from the ball. Yeah. So I left and I wasn't going to go. I was going to say, no, no, I'm staying here. I just, I'm fucking, I'm not moving. And then Bristol city came in and, and if it wasn't for Bristol city, I don't think I would have left because Bristol city, I started my career off there and I knew the manager and you just said look, we want a little bit of guidance. We want a little bit of experience. Yeah. Do you want to come here on loan? And I want a permanent deal at that point because here was a bit of a shit show. And I thought, how would that come back that time? Would your agent might be of my the call and gone, look, is there anything going? So no, just a death stage.
[00:42:42] It was all done directly through me. Yeah. Um, but the agents still get a fee. Don't worry about that. So yeah, there's a few snakey ones out there. So they, um, yeah, I got the move. And then cause Lee Johnson run, run me directly. It's a lot of been in contact with Birmingham, you know, do you fancy coming on loan kind of thing? And I was Adam and I wasn't going to go. And then I decided to go again cause Zola just said, like, it's impossible for you to stay really. You're going to be trained on your own. And then when I came back from the preseason, I was told you I got married.
[00:43:11] Um, hi, Redknapp didn't even speak to me for four or five days. I was made to train on my own with a fitness coach. And then after four days I wanted to see him. I said, hi Gaffer. Can I have a word? He said, David, I was just about to call you. And I said, mate, like you weren't, you may be trained on my own for four or five days. I said, look, if you, if I'm going to train with you guys, at least have that respect to like speak to me like a human being to, you know, you're not for me kind of thing. And I started about a week, two weeks later when we had like a cup game or something. Yeah. Strange. Pursating to the start.
[00:43:41] I bet he was just, where's your head? I know. But I was bet he'd come in and he was like, like you said, there's a shit show and he was like, oh, oh, yeah. He's decent, man. What's he did over there? I forgot about him a little bit. He was like, oh, I tried signing at you and I was like, Tottenham and Portland. And I was like, yeah, right then. So he's lying with everyone. You didn't. There's levels to the game. You didn't. But like, yeah. Now he's going through a line with everyone. I tried to sign you at Tottenham. Yeah. He was just probably brought in here just like from the guys that he knows to give him a little For the players here, there and everywhere. Like just go, all right. Organise him a little bit. Yeah.
[00:44:10] But even when Steve Cottrell came in, I felt sorry for him because I joined Portsmouth on loan and he tried signing me a few times. I've known him for a few years and he was like putting players on a team sheet and he was getting told not to play certain players. He was. Yeah. So he was put in a difficult position as well because he's a good manager, good man as well. And he's sending the same thing upstairs. Yeah. We put the team on. That's what he's thinking of. Obviously the boardroom and then people above him will just pull out a bit of rank, you
[00:44:40] know, so yeah. We were sitting on the training ground, but now they built an office in the training ground. Yeah. So it all and massive. Oh yes. It's mad times really because the manager knows who's playing or who's training. Well, these guys have a clue. When did you know then that it's done? Yeah. When I went on, when I came back, I think, and when I come back from Bristol City and I was like, I think I was hanging on for dear life really.
[00:45:06] I was trying to work hard and giving my all for the club and, and trying to like, you know, be here, but you just know you're one foot's out the door because you don't, you're not wanted really. You know, a few of the times I've ended up playing right back a few games and. You did a bad though. Yeah. I did a right, right back. Yeah. I think cause we had like a couple of injuries and I went down and then obviously Steve put me on and I did all right. And then when you, when you're hanging on for dear life, you just need that one bad game and they're just, they taking you back out.
[00:45:33] As soon as that started happening, I just thought, nah, I need to, I need to go. How long did you have left on your contract then? I had like another year or so, I think. And I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I looked like, you know, like the club don't want you basically above me. And you know. You know what? That, that makes like sense to think. So Cottrell took the, he took the brunt or team, I remember team selections. Yeah. Square pegs, round holes. It was, it was all over the place, wasn't it? Yeah. But that wasn't even.
[00:46:01] So he wouldn't have played those, he wouldn't have played those kinds of players. He's, he's, he, you know, he likes hard working players. He's got a bit about them and we can trust. And I don't think there's too many players in there. He could have trusted. He was great for me, really. He's the one who just sort me out of the deal to get paid up kind of thing. But I helped the club as well. I didn't take, I could have sat there and taken a hundred percent of my wages, but I didn't. In essence, I probably should have, financial point of view, but I just wanted to keep playing football.
[00:46:28] And that's when I, I went to India then to play for a little bit. I hated it. Fucking hell. How did that come back? Right. So one of Dean Saunders fitness coach, I had a Doncaster. His mate was out there. Ashley Westwood, his name is not the one who played for. Yeah. Not, not that one. I played for Bill. No, a different one. And yeah. And he was like director of football at some Indian club. And he said, look, come out here. If you want to change the scenery of blah, blah, blah. So let's go out there.
[00:46:57] Robbie Keane was on the team. Ryan Taylor used to play for. There was a bit of a, a bit of a push for Indian football. Oh yeah. It's a bit of a push. It was, it's horrendous. Yeah. It was like, you can have four or five foreign players and the rest of the team were like local players. And it's no joke. It's like, you just got them off the fucking street to play football. It was bizarre. Like Robbie Keane passing someone and the ball would just run into their foot. And yeah. Passing into the local butcher. Yeah. Yeah. Was Johnson over there when he was over there?
[00:47:27] Roger Johnson. No, he wasn't there when I was there. No, Tom Lons. He did a similar thing and went over and he went, it's just. Yeah. So Teddy Shannon was my manager there. Yeah. Um, fucking hell. What bizarre set of circumstances. Yeah. So like Robbie Keane, Teddy Shannon as a manager. And then you just will come out the airport. There will. There's a cow walking across the road with a lead. Obviously the culture shock is just so different. It's just like crazy. Is there a bit of a busman's holiday as well having an Indian book in India?
[00:47:56] Oh, it was, it was just like strange. Well, the, the local boys were having like curries and stuff for pre-match meal. I'm like thinking, I don't know why I have a bit of chicken and rice or like a poached egg on toast or something. You get the nervous belly before. It was like the whole culture. It was just a massive culture shock. Um, yeah. Yeah. It was mad. I couldn't wait to go home. Yeah. I couldn't wait to go home. It was just a case of, thanks lads. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, but not for me. Yeah. Yeah. Just going back a little bit. Bale, baller. Baller.
[00:48:26] Best. Bale, Ramsey, them kind of players. They're just a joke in training. Yeah. I'd say Ramsey's obviously an unbelievable player, but Bale is just that, that next level. Got that aura. For 2016. So he wasn't, he wasn't actually fit, was he? Was he not kind of playing guy into guy? Um, he was playing a little bit game to game. He was training now and again. He wasn't. Yeah. He was always, he had his own like, you know, fitness coach and Spanish like guy who
[00:48:55] came over from Real Madrid to make sure. Yeah. He was obviously a Madrid player and he carries clubs for him on the golf course. He like, but he was, um, yeah, he was training in and out. He was like, obviously all patched up for games and stuff, but he was still, you know, well, he's unreal. Unbelievable. Yeah. So what do you, when was, when was it kind of dawning on you as a squad that you were going somewhere that this was a real progression that you were making at the tournament? Yeah. It was quite strange cause we, yeah, we got there. We didn't have no expectations. We didn't have no tournament experience whatsoever.
[00:49:25] So, and even like the management staff as well, they were all new to all of us. So, but I think, um, when we started to beat, I think we beat Russia. I think, I think after we beat them, I thought we've got to be, like, yeah, we've got to be a chance to go like quite far here because every team that we beat Belgium as well. I know. I know. And they were like, their squad was a joke and we popped up a little bit, but I just felt like we had the best player in this tournament.
[00:49:54] It was when you have that feeling of like, you've gone onto the pitch and we had the best player at the tournament, even when we were playing against Fortigo and Ronaldo was, I still felt like our, our player was the better baller, you know? Yeah. Um, and it was, he was gassed up before the tournament and then he produced, it was like, sometimes you get gassed and he's like, oh, that's a bit of a damp squad. It was like an inevitable momentum with Wiles, I was like, even as English, like, it's like your second team. Yeah.
[00:50:20] And obviously we played, we hate each other, anyone, our own nations don't like each other, but you took everyone along with you, didn't you? Yeah. It was, it was class. It was amazing experience and nothing you'll ever experience in your life. Well, I will never, obviously, because I've retired, but. Do you think they'll ever reach those hearts again? Um, I hope so. But I think the thing is, is when you have someone like a bail, he is just literally a generational talent, isn't he? And he might not come across. But around someone like that again for like another 40, 50 years for someone like a country like Wales.
[00:50:50] Um, they're hard to come by, but in terms of, I think our whole squad as a whole, I think it's the best quality of Welsh squad we've had because we even had most of the players on the bench with like top end championship. Whereas like now it's like filtered out a little bit more and we have like a lot of Prem boys in there as well. Our main core of our team were, were spot on really. And the spine of the team, um, they're doing really well now and obviously unfortunate not to qualify, but I think where Welsh football is now to where it used to be, it's still in a, you know, a great place.
[00:51:20] Yeah. You see the expectations then? Yeah. These genuine disappointment across the board. They didn't qualify for the last few tournaments. So the expectations there and obviously Bellamy is doing great. Well, he spoke about professionalism. He feels like he's. Yeah. And he's hungry as well. He's very hungry. So it always helps out and manage like that. But unfortunately he'd lost out on the most recent qualifier, but they're, you know, they've improved massively. Hmm. He's scared that he's too good for Wales and the premiership team might come sniffing for him.
[00:51:57] But, you know, he's, he's one of the best. He's down for perfection. He was always a top professional and he'll, you know, make sure that his players are trying to act the same way. So I had a bit needless. He's definitely chilled out a little bit more what I've seen because he didn't. You like that though, don't you? Yeah. You want that, you need a little bit. Yeah. I like that. That's what I loved about him. He's got like that fiery determination and that's why. He was horrible, wasn't he? Top player. Yeah. Top player. Yeah. But he had the ability as well, didn't he? Yeah. He was top player. Yeah. Just moving sideways slightly away from the football.
[00:52:25] You've spoken openly about depression and gambling and just life after football really. And we spoke about it on the podcast before having the adulation and then kind of going to those quiet moments. What's, what made you decide to talk about it in a public forum? Well, it was actually, so it was alcohol. It was not the gambling side of things. That was a problem for me. I was, so alcohol was mine.
[00:52:51] And I think probably just the highs of being brought up in such like a young, like a young age, you know, the pressures on you from a young age and you don't, you know, the ups and downs. I was going through divorce, et cetera, et cetera. Then the system obviously uses that. You can't see your children. Then you're finally be a children. So to deal with all that, then playing football at a high level, you know, if you have a bad game again, slandered on social media, which is not as big as what it is now. It's worse now, obviously, from those platforms.
[00:53:18] But, you know, I think fans and people, they have that perception of like footballers like robots. So because you're in that money, you don't have like normal human feelings. So, you know, when you're going through a divorce, you're not seeing your children, then you're having like fans on your back and you're playing to a certain level. You know, a lot of times I was going out to drink. I was just drinking nonstop really just to probably take that kind of feeling away. And so I was drinking and just playing football. That's what I always used to do. I used to party a lot.
[00:53:47] Um, and you know, I think hopefully now in this day and age, if, if, cause I used to have teams who wanted to sign me, but they'd say to my agent, he's a good player. We want to sign him and it probably cost me an absolute fortune to get better contracts and go to better clubs over the years. Cause ability wise without sounding arrogant, I think I should have played most of my career in the prem. I would have thought, um, cause when I used to go play, you know, with Wales away, like Bale would say, you know, you're the best free kick taker after me and stuff.
[00:54:13] So when you get a compliment like that where he's been, there's obviously something in it, you know? So, so from that looking back, I think I drunk way too much in terms of what I, and I wasn't a professional when I was coming to the gym and worked extremely hard, but I think that just took it away in depression. I just started drinking a lot, you know, as partying girls and fucking drinking all the time, just take away what you maybe feel like on a day to day basis.
[00:54:39] Did that make you, so you've got certain confidence about you and did managers kind of get a bit of an arrogant fit? Did you feel like you managers thought you were arrogant cause you were drinking your partying lifestyle? Or did you think that like you said, it cost you a few contracts or is you kind of not doing it? Um, I didn't really hide it. No, there was a few times I come into blues actually. And I would, the physio would smell alcohol on me. He said, look, just stay in the physio room. So you don't know. Yeah. I know. Fucking hell.
[00:55:07] So we were just like, yes, I had a few bevies and then come in and then he could smell it on me. He's like, look, just stay in because you don't want to go out and get an injury and blah, blah. But I only ever drunk one, one time on a Friday before a game, never drunk the day before a game before. And I got caught, um, in Birmingham. I was watching Justin Bieber, believe it or not, a concert, I think it was. And, um, Troy Deenys messaged me and said, oh, it's that apple juice in your pint. There you go. And he said like laughing emojis because I'm sat with your manager and Rao was with him. And in my mind, I'm thinking, fuck it. He's seen me with one beer.
[00:55:37] I might as well just crack on now. So I ended up cracking on and a few more. And I started the next day. I think we won four, two. I scored one and set up two. And he said, I want to see you in my office on Monday. He didn't. He called me in his office on Monday. He said, look, I know you like to go out and blah, blah. That's what I like about your character. You're like, you know, you're fucking rough around the edges kind of thing. Um, and that's what makes you. And, but don't let it affect your performances. And I don't want to see you drinking the night before a game. And that was it. He knew what I was about.
[00:56:05] Um, I thought he was going to say, he's like, oh, we'll feed you some. If you're going to play. Yeah, exactly. I know. But I think when he tried signing me at Derby as well, try to take me there. But I think those ultimate decisions of like bringing in a professional player and then do you bring in Katsu's kind of like, he's going to feel. Love that. Yeah. That's the one thing. That's the one thing. I was kind of constantly, but I'm hoping if that's the case with some of the players that played today that the clubs are looking to help him. Yeah. Because it used to be before was like, well, we're not saying him. He's a fucking problem. He loves a night out.
[00:56:34] Whereas like, well, why is he drinking? Can we help that player to be better? And then sometimes I think they just shift them to be someone else's problem rather than looking after them as a, you know, as a person really. It's a much bigger thing in football now, isn't it? Yeah. Or it's at least it's shown to be. Yeah. Whether it's, whether there's anything behind it or not. I don't know, but. Yeah. And the culture has changed slightly, hasn't it? Yeah. You said it was tailing off towards the end of yours, but predominantly 20, the 2000s and the 2010, it was about in the 90s, obviously. It was about going and enjoying it after that.
[00:57:04] Getting on the beer with it. It's just how you sat like an asshole when I was drinking. That was a problem towards the end. I was just sort of raving in. I was just like going out and I just, I was so unpredictable. I just wanted to drink all the time. And it was cause you would, you know, take him into depression and then you don't want to be around and then you're not thinking straight because you put that. Yeah. Alcohol in your system. Whereas obviously it's a depressant. Whereas most people. So like when, even when I go to a restaurant now, they say, would you like a wine with that steak or whatever? And I'm like, no, no, thank you. And it's like looked on as why, why are you not drinking?
[00:57:32] Whereas like, if you offer them some drugs that you say, no, it's different, but you always have to like say why you're not drinking. Yeah. Yeah. I've not drunk for seven years. Yeah. But I've never done any drugs. But when I checked into rehab, they're like, oh, you're in the year for cocaine and drink. And I was like, no, just drink. No, like, well, most footballers, it goes hands in hand. I was with them. I've never seen any of my teammates do any drugs ever. So I was like taken back by that myself. But the answer to the question why I become public knowledge is that when I was in rehab,
[00:58:02] I made a post on Instagram because I just thought there'd be another footballer out there who's feeling what I felt. And if I can just help one person, then hopefully I've done a little bit of my job, you know? And then I lost a lot of money in certain stuff. And the papers were on my shit. Then the papers were trying to release a newspaper articles on me as soon as I come out of rehab. My PR woman was like, there's no real reason why you should release this at this particular time because he's just come out of rehab.
[00:58:31] And the newspaper was like, we don't give a fuck. We're releasing them regardless. Yeah. So I just come out of rehab, go through a divorce, not seeing my youngest daughter, miss my daughter's first birthday when I was in rehab. And then the newspapers are just like, yeah, they're ramping up a few notches. You know, I see your PR is even just saying, can you leave it for now? I managed to pull a couple of, pull a couple of stories because I, when I first retired from football, this is how shit the stories go and whatever. This one football agent I worked for, he said, look, I'll give you X, Y, and Z to come on board.
[00:59:00] I'm trying to start this football agency up to be at a certain level. I managed to get a football player from the conference to Oxford. So I knew the director of football at Oxford. So I've gotten to move from conference to league one. This agent was paying me in drips and drabs, not proper contract that we agreed. And then I never got that fee from the player signing, which agents for, you know what I mean? Yeah, he never paid my wages.
[00:59:25] And then he tried selling the story to the newspapers by saying, I'm a nightmare and hard to work for. And he sent me on an email saying, we should use that to your advantage. We could ring the news, the Sun newspaper, make you a few quid and blah, blah, blah. I screenshot that email, sent it to my PR woman. And cause the Sun were going to release another paper article on me. And that's when they pulled the plug. Cause he was trying to make money off me to then. So you have to look countering. Yeah. To counter attack that way. Otherwise it'd be another, another story. Yeah.
[00:59:54] There's a few of those going on. Yeah. Trying to kick a guy when he's down, you know, that's horrible. It happens. It happens when you're probably selling the newspaper. Yeah. Well, yeah. Especially when I got him a player, the player removed. Like I, I, yeah, I understand that not everyone's going to like me and that's absolutely fine. I must say I'm sitting here and saying, I'm perfect. I've made lots of mistakes. Um, but. That's what you find though. That's an underlying story.
[01:00:19] There's a lot of people in football who were just, well, not just in football, but in PR and. Was it tabs? It was horrible. It was like, I was getting a message like every other day. So I know the newspapers coming out about you, blah, blah. It was just constant. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And then it, then. Manifested into, you know, some of the stuff that I speak about mental health or speak about addiction or speak about conspiracy stuff that I, I speaking about or, or vaccinations
[01:00:47] or whatever, or like how kids are being, you know, since vaccinations, there's a lot more of, um, autism going around, et cetera, et cetera, which is facts. And, um, the daily mail wouldn't leave me alone. They're just writing stuff on me constantly, constantly, constantly. Yeah. The dad. Yeah. The daily mail. Oh yeah. Just touching upon that then. So social media for how horrific it is. It is quite funny. Yeah.
[01:01:14] Um, so you have been quite vocal, same as Matt, who has similar beliefs and, and obviously everyone's entitled to beliefs and, and certain things we improve. So I think have improved. Um, what kind of stuff do you get on social media? And I know a lot of them say about your tin hats and, um, we've seen some, I mean, we put some out to say David Cottrell's coming on and someone put, uh, asking if the chemtrails
[01:01:41] have made me trans or something, some are out there that I think you get kind of, um, what's the word I'm trying to say? You get kind of put in this category of everything you speak about on a conspiracy is lunacy. What took us through it? We were talking earlier, weren't we? There's no context to a lot of things these days. And obviously like you say with tabloids and stuff like that, they'll pick something and run with it because it looks good or it looks out there. So yeah. What is your relationship with social media?
[01:02:11] Um, well, even when I spoke about the Epstein list, not so long ago, when I used to speak about that years and years ago about, you know, the, the elite people or, you know, celebrities, if you like a trafficking children or sexually abusing children. I speak about this years and years ago. I used to get like, they sold stories on me or not sold stories, but the stories on me have been me mentally unwell talking about this stuff. And even if I post something like that on, on Twitter, someone says, cause me a fucking idiot. And I'm like thinking, well, how are you an idiot if you're calling out people who are hurting children?
[01:02:41] I don't get it. I don't get the logic. But going back to the conspiracy stuff, I don't know. I think it must be about 67 conspiracies that are right. Convert, compared to the other ones, like the chemtrails that in the actual UK government website being, you know, they're in there where they see them, like they see the clouds. Before, before that, before the conspiracies around that, there was no talk of the cloud seed. It's like there. Yeah. We do cloud. And then even like Dubai, they spend like $20 million a year to manipulate the weather.
[01:03:11] So when I used to speak about this stuff, it's actually factually out there in the public domain. Some people, so many people are lazy. They just don't even look at it. But, you know, it's a fact they just want us, they want us ill. Like that's, I just, I believe that they, like, cause I said this to my mum actually the other day, she's like, we're talking about the pharmaceutical companies. If people were so healthy and well, they would make no money. They're a trillion dollar business or trillion bound business, you know? Yeah. It's like the same things that people weren't in debt, there'd be no banks.
[01:03:41] You know, if people were in debt, they obviously the banks are going to keep running. So that's just like, it's just logic. So healthy people don't make these companies money, unfortunately, but people don't see it that way. Do you find, cause these conversations go on every day on social media and different people will kind of find groups and communities where- There's people who will comment on this going, ah, but you're going to get that, aren't you? It's not just an isolated, go on, carry on. I'll just start, but it's not just an isolated one person saying it here and there, is it? No, no, I've lost my train of thought now. Sorry.
[01:04:12] But yeah, they're kind of, a lot of people are saying it, but it's still kind of funny. I've kept under, whereas like- Oh, it's yeah. If you weren't in the public domain, if you weren't the figure that you are, there wouldn't be so much focus on it, would they? Yeah. It's just like hard, you know, Matt Letitio, I know he's a great guy and everything he speaks, I think is facts. I support everything that he says, you know, I've got the same kind of thought process that he thinks.
[01:04:39] Um, and I just find it crazy that, you know, why would anyone want children to get hurt and trafficked all over the world? Uh, it's a massive, it's a massive business for, for these people. And they're doing it on a regular basis that celebrities are worshiped by everyone, but because they're their favorite celebrity, they don't want to have a bad word said about him. You know, it speaks volumes that they can't release the files completely, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. That names have got to be redacted, et cetera.
[01:05:05] But I would just find me myself personally, I feel like if I just go too much into it, this is me just being deep, that my head would just go and I'll be done. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So I see everything now as being mainly fake. Like when I see things I've gone into so many rabbit holes. It's like, it's like little things, like the amount of times you see the number 33, which is obviously massive for like the Freemasonry and like symbolism. If you see a lot of like things that happen in the world, like 33 is not too far away from like this stuff. And I'm like, it just blows your mind.
[01:05:35] But yeah, some people think I'm fucking nuts, but I'm scared. I'm off scared. It is. Yeah. The main thing that I went into, I went into this when I was playing my career, I was a thing called pizza gate, which is basically the trafficking of children. So that was my main thing. And then, then, you know, a couple of people I'd speak to about, they saw, well, I've got gone down this rabbit hole. You checked this down before, you know, you've gone down like all these different things of what's going on. But anyone who speaks up against children being trafficked, I don't think it's a bad thing.
[01:06:02] It's only a good thing, you know, because it's happening right under our nurses. That's too many coincidences. Yeah. Well, the thing is since kind of from COVID and the PPE funding and the people that got money that are friends with the politicians, the internet now, it's too smart, isn't it? So the things that governments could get away with before and you'd not hear anything about. Well, you probably find if you went back, if you had the internet during the Iraq war, the weapons of mass destruction, things like that came out, didn't it? There was none.
[01:06:30] But now with the internet being as it is, it's playing out in real time, isn't it? So the independent people and outlets and stuff as well. With AI, you don't know what's from AI. That's the next thing. Yeah. That's the next thing. It's a bit crazy. But now I, yeah, I don't really speak too much about the conspiracy stuff. Now I know what's right and what I know what's wrong. I've done enough education over the years to see what I'm doing. I don't really get involved and I just keep myself to myself. I had my old Instagram taken down as well because I was speaking up on these things.
[01:06:56] So when I used to speak about, you know, COVID stuff, I had like literally two views on my stories from compared to all the thousands of followers I had. That's only recently I just got a new Instagram, maybe about eight, nine months ago. And I'm back to the drawing board, but all I do is play paddle and post that. I've seen you paddle on the Instagram. Still in decent shape. I've seen a decent nick as well. Yeah, I try it. What's life look like now after football? Yeah, I just chill really. I just like, yeah, I try and I go to the jail.
[01:07:26] I've seen your Instagram with your tats and naps on the beach. Honestly. I covered iron. Pardon? I covered iron. Yeah, just my bum cheeks are covered. Yeah, just that nice covered job. But I was thinking about it, but yeah, I'm just, I'm going to take it easy now. It's like my tats. I think I've covered enough, but. How's your paddle game coming on? You're going to get in there. Yeah. It's obviously always, you know, next, next, the champion. Because of my addictive personality, I want to get real good. I'm going to probably get lessons.
[01:07:54] I play with a lot of my mates back in Cardiff and I went to Sheffield recently and played with like the Sheffield United boys. They had a good tournament up there and yeah, it was good. It was just, it's great fun. You know, it's addictive as hell. Like you obviously when you got, when I finished football, I think this is the first thing I've been real competitive. So I love it. Go to the gym, walk my dog, spend time with my kids, my family and that's it really. Yeah. That was wicked. Let's do some quick fire before we let you go. Shall we start? Yeah. Best stadium you've played in?
[01:08:26] For, for my personal view, Old Trafford I would say because I'm a United fan. So when I played there for Wigan in the Prem, I think that would be my favourite stadium. Class. Yeah. So good. Did your international career overlap with Giggs? So when I made my debut for Wales, I took his record like by 10 days as the youngest ever player and I come on for him. Yeah. So I played with Giggs and played with Bale probably to the, you know, I would be the best Welsh players really. Keep that up. Clipped.
[01:08:55] Two of the best left wingers. Yeah. Premier League. He's strong. Yeah. Yeah. Ridiculous. Well, Giggs was always my hero growing up because that's why I wound up with number 11 shit for Birmingham and all the other teams. They were always my thing. And then obviously managed to play with someone like Bale is unreal really. Yeah. That's class. Favourite goal? That I've scored. Yeah. I would probably say, hmm, it's a tough one.
[01:09:25] You've scored some absolute shit pingers, haven't you? Yeah. I've got a few. My favourite goal? I liked my one for Bristol City when I was 16 or 17 when I went through the Huddersfield No, Huddersfield defence and scored. I've never been able to get hold of that goal ever since. I can't see it. That's what, see that's why fucking shit being this old. You can't get the clips off. Yeah. Some grindy old. Actually I'd say probably the halfway line goal for Doncaster, which was against Walsall I think. That was probably up there.
[01:09:55] Yeah. Got that one definitely. Yeah. One game you'd love to play again? Probably the Sheffield United playoff final against Burnley. We lost 1-0. I think if I could, I was young as well and the game just absolutely flew by. We went 1-0 down. It was like the time was just eating up and we just couldn't get in momentum. We couldn't get back in the game. Burnley were the better team on the day and that was a chance to get promoted to the Prem. So I think if I could play another game it would be that. I like it.
[01:10:25] And finally, would you have a message for Blues fans for your time here? I know you didn't really get to say goodbye properly. Do you know what? I get a lot of stick off some Blues fans, you know, believe it or not. Because all the conspiracy stuff, I think I'm fucking Raven Linnatic. But most of the, yeah, I think when I was here they gave, I felt the love I think. They gave me a lot of support. You even clashed that out at the time. Yeah, I loved that. Considering the madness at the time. You were one of the signings, you were fighting.
[01:10:51] When you get that stick, because I don't think the fans really knew of what was going on behind the scenes. But I never wanted to leave. Well, the biggest compliment I could say, I wanted to finish my career here. I didn't want to play for another team. So I always felt like, you know, we had a lot of, you know, support from the fans. Because we were like, it's like we took a few steps back and then we grew together again. Yeah. When I was watching your goal compilation, when I was doing the research and that, the amount of half empty fucking sections at the stadium. You know, you're celebrating and you're going to fucking do the salute to the one guy in the block.
[01:11:21] You know, we deserve so much more. And to be at the club at the time you were at where it was so up and down and so unpredictable. And it just, you're in a bit of a lull. Yeah. There's class here though. Do you know the evening games and the crowd were up? I used to love the night time games on Tuesday or Wednesday night. Flood lights on and you're just like, fuck it. And you're winning as well. I love how this was fun. At the time as well, as a fan, it was us against them. Yeah. That's what we don't care about.
[01:11:50] It was like, what are they doing to the club? We might as well club together. And a lot of the results were ground out of that. It felt like it was us against them. Yeah. It was like the players and the fans together. Yeah. But it was class. The fans were great. I loved my time. If I could have signed another contract to stay here and the best that I wish Rowett didn't leave, to be honest. I think we were onto something good. All the players were class. We had a wicked change of room. There was no fucking egos or animosity going on. We just had like a hard group of players who worked hard.
[01:12:21] We had good youth players coming through, obviously, Damari coming through and a couple of others. So yeah, it was good. It was just a good time to be here. And then it just... I think that's our butterfly effect moment, isn't it? Yeah. Rowett going on. Whatever was going on behind the scenes, whether he's... Now there was the release, the rumours didn't know. He was talking to other clubs and flirting with Norwich and whoever else at the time, but which he'd be perfectly entitled to speak to people considering the state, the club rivers. Yeah. That was the moment, wasn't it? Where the club just kind of went... Yeah.
[01:12:50] He just didn't get the back in and then... Yeah. But then again, butterfly effect. We wouldn't be here today and the grounds changed so much. So the American owners may not... The night head might not get involved. Yeah, so it's good things. So it's a stadium command about. Chris Davis, I knew he was the analyst actually when I was at Swansea City. I was going to say, yeah. So under Rogers was... Yeah, he took him to Celtic and took him as his right-hand man, but he was always a student of the game and wanted to... He used to work really hard and it's good that he's getting his opportunity, you know? Yeah. Class, thanks for coming on.
[01:13:20] No worries. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Cheers, man. Cheers, man. If you like this video, please do click to subscribe to the channel. We currently have five and a half thousand members, over half a million views. So let's convert some views into memberships and that will continue to enable us to bring great guests on and continue making great podcasts. Thanks.