[00:00:00] My wife's still crying her eyes out in the taxi, now because we're having to go back to Sunderland and wait even more. I got back to the hotel all night. Roy Keane was the manager at the time. I never even met Roy. Roy was back in Ireland doing his badges, so he never even come over. And then he phoned me later on in the evening and he just said, look, unfortunately, Paul, we're not going to go ahead with the signing of you. And I was like, can you please explain to me why?
[00:00:25] Well, my physios basically told me that you've got a knee problem and your knee is going to explode in two years. So, like from insurance wise, we can't insure you. She knows what she's doing. She's a hairdresser. So I'm thinking, oh, she's brilliant. We're both going to have blonde hair in the morning. Mine was ginger. So I had to go into Soliol. Roy Keane was wearing a cat. Roy Keane was wearing a ginger tinge. Roy Keane was wearing a hat on the other side of the night. Roy Keane was wearing a hat on the other side of the night.
[00:00:55] So obviously I'm not doing it in a salon. My wife's doing it, Caroline. So we've ended up going in Soliol and I bumped into Dean Kylie. And I'm thinking, he's going to take your cap off, you idiot, like that. And I'm like, no, Dean, I can't do it in here, mate. No, I'm not doing it. And he was like, what are you doing? I said, you want to see Kev's hair, mate? So, yeah. So the characters in the staff now had gone to that next level of, like, we can't be below standards now because we know what's coming. And Brian expected the Man United standards.
[00:01:24] And that's what he brought. He brought players like Kevin Campbell in, who understood the Premier League. And he was a great leader wherever he went. Steve Watson was another great character. So he came in. Obviously, the young lads like Richard Chaplow, Kieran Richardson, they all added to the quality of the squad. And I just had to deal with it face on. It's like, it's football. These things happen. And there was no maliciousness to Damien whatsoever. And yeah, down the line, like, obviously, where I've seen him coaching at Blackburn. And we've, like you say, we've had a good chat and we've talked about the good old times.
[00:01:54] It's football. And he was the same player. He was a winner. He wanted to get stuck in. And then he was just one of those unfortunate things on the football pitch. Before we get into this, we're doing over a million engagements a month. But most of you aren't subscribed. If you enjoy the content, hit subscribe and follow us on socials. It'll make such a massive difference. Cheers. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Hello, Paul. Absolute legend. Yeah. How are you today? Yeah, good. Thank you. Yeah. Enjoying the rest of the madness of the seasons.
[00:02:24] Like you say. So yeah, it's time to switch off with the family and just enjoy that time. So we were just saying, obviously the end of your season, you've pulled off a great escape again. Yeah, great escape. I like them. I like that. They sound good on your CV, don't they? But you don't want to go into them all the time. So yeah, Oxford City was a real good challenge for me. Went in at Christmas time. Obviously, yeah, the club was in a little bit of a pickle and they wanted to, obviously,
[00:02:51] my experiences of what I've experienced in the past, not only as a player, but as a coach as well. So yeah, it was great. It was a great ending. Mathematically, going into the last game, obviously, in our heads we knew we were safe, but it wasn't announced that we were safe. So yeah, we knew we had to go into the last game still away at Darlington and make sure we got the result. And we did. We won 3-1 and it was a real good performance by the lads. And it puts the icing on the cake, really, with all the hard work after Christmas. Yeah, it sounds like a horrible place as well. A way to Darlington to get a result.
[00:03:20] It's a long drive back if you don't get a result and all the other results go against you. But no, the coach journey was a nice bubbly coach journey. And yeah, it was, again, probably not as emotional as what I've had to deal with in previous clubs where there's a lot more added pressure with the stakes, obviously, at Blues and West Brom in the Premier League. Them escapes. Yeah, so it didn't feel that sort of intense pressure, if you know what I mean. Yeah.
[00:03:50] It was more of a, yeah, thank God for that. That's done now. We can switch off and enjoy ourselves on the coach on the way back. Yeah, a little bit different from this financial catastrophe here if we go down. Yeah, and people, obviously, in the background that you see on a daily basis losing their jobs. It's not nice to see people that are good people that don't get the recognition that they deserve. And yeah, when obviously situations like that happen, especially, like you say, with Blues and the unknown, really,
[00:04:14] with the owners and the way the club was a mess, just of how many people would lose their jobs and not be in work. Yeah, it was something that you couldn't imagine thinking about. Yeah. It's a huge knock-on effect, isn't it, that fans particularly don't see? You as players see it every day, the tea lady, the kit man, and you're thinking, we need to get this. You're obviously thinking we need to get the results to stay up, but you're thinking, again, these need to work. It's their livelihood, isn't it? Definitely.
[00:04:42] And the camaraderie you have behind the scenes with them people as well is, like, they make your jobs easier when you come in because everything's laid out for you, everything's clean for you. So it's a mutual respect of, like, we respect you because you respect us. So, yeah, it's not nice. It's not nice when you see, obviously, staff members losing their jobs because of them reasons. So, yeah, like you say, football sometimes is impossible to survive, but financially, from a club,
[00:05:08] if they can secure the people that work at the ground, then it makes it easier, but obviously, blues at the time. I was going to say, this is the kit lady and the tea going on. It was the same person, weren't it, back then? Yeah, I mean, when I was mum's mum as well, I'm thinking, I'm getting to the end of my mum. I didn't go in another mum here. And that's the way it was. It was like you just never knew. You never knew what was going to happen. It was scary. It was a scary moment. So just a little lay out then. So over 700 professional appearances across your whole career. Looking at the numbers last night, over 250 for Watford.
[00:05:37] Over 230 for West Brom. Over 190 for Blues from that month-long contract to 190 games and club captain, team captain, player of the year that second season, wasn't it? Yeah. So where did it begin for you as a footballer? So I came through Watford's Academy. Yes, I was a young lad growing up in Watford. Obviously played my grassroots football with a club called SNK United, which was brilliant. Having fun with your mates on a Saturday and Sunday was always great fun,
[00:06:07] growing up. And then, yeah, I got scouted for Watford at the age of nine. But it was only two times a week. So it was a Monday and a Friday. And they were both in the gym. They weren't on grass pitches or Astro. It was like a YMCA gym. So again, that was good. Because you would go in there and train with the older kids as well. So you'd be bouncing off the walls. You'd be getting beaten up. You'd be getting kicked. And you picked yourself up at that age. It was just a bit of fun for you. So, yeah. So then it progressed from there, really.
[00:06:33] I was still allowed to play grassroots football until I signed my YTS, which you're not allowed to do now. No, no. Which is, yeah. I've heard of now. When you think of the rules now, it's madness. And I also think of the pathway for young kids coming through the system. And it's non-existent for some clubs. And it's actually quite scary of we actually need to have a look at it. Do we need to go back to the old way of understanding that this is the upbringing. This is the life skills that some of these kids need to understand. And it's not all nicey-nicey.
[00:07:03] And you get this. You get that. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you get to your 21s now. And you're being told that you're not getting a pro or your 18s. You've been through that system for so long. Yeah. And you're then told that you're not going to get a contract. Your world's ending. Like, as a footballer now, your world is ending. Because you've not had that sort of upbringing of, I was mentored by a senior pro at Watford Football Club. So, for me, it was like, it was brilliant. I loved it. And it made me the person I was. You just made me think about that, actually.
[00:07:33] So, if they get to 21 then. So, most of our adult life, or growing up really, have been friends from school, football, and work mainly. So, you're taking out that football aspect from this kid who's signed a nine and hasn't played football with their mates since four. Yeah, yeah. For 10 plus years. Yeah. They're going to feel the isolation of that a little bit, I feel as well. That they haven't played with their mates. Yeah. They've lost that childhood, haven't they? But more pressure, really, I would say, is put on these kids now. Because they're in the system, it's like, I've got to make it. Yeah.
[00:08:02] I have to make it. So, it's like, right, okay. But your childhood, you've lost a little bit of. Because, like you say there, you've not had the opportunity to play with your mates still at the weekends. Everything's dedicated to playing for a professional football club. But that moment's taken away from you in a split second when you're told you're not good enough. So, then for a kid to have to go through that system and have that, like, sort of pushing. I wouldn't say the parents. Well, parents, like you say, parents do become a bit of a problem because they're the ones that also want to be the player.
[00:08:31] Whereas, be that supportive parent and guide them the right way. My kids, I want my kids to go through the non-league system because it's better. That's, when I was growing up, it was more than non-league reserve team football. Also, academy feel. But also, grassroots with my mates. But playing against men. I played against men as well before I made my first team debut with Watford at 17. So, altogether, I felt I was complete as a person and as a child
[00:09:00] because I got to experience the best of both worlds with it. That's something that does come up a lot in these podcasts, isn't it? Well, to be fair, yeah. All the great Blues players you've had in have all had that pathway. Yeah. But I'm not saying it's not wrong. Yeah. We've got to find a way. It's rounded you before you got there, hasn't it? Some kind of middle ground. How many players do we see coming through Birmingham's academy into the first team at this moment in time? Well, it's a big thing now, isn't it, this season? There's none. Watford, for me. I came through the system under Graham Taylor and there was nine of us.
[00:09:29] There was nine youth team players that got pro-contract at Watford, but you played for the first team. Yeah. None of them now. There's none at Watford. And it breaks my heart because I went back as a coach and it was, I could see it, the negativity towards the academy, the distance of they never met with you as well. They had their own building, so you never even saw them. And for me, it was like, wow, this can't be happening in football. It needs to change. And it might not happen at all the other clubs,
[00:09:58] but I would say that there is that divide. There is that divide where a first team player doesn't get to spend time with an academy player or have that where I would clean Andy Hessentiler's boots. And for me, it was like, that was my upbringing because if I made a mistake on Andy Hessentiler's boots, I knew what was coming. I knew what was coming. But it wasn't like an aggressive. It was of, right, there's your punishment, Robbo. This is what you're going to get for making a mistake. Yeah, you've got accountability, haven't you?
[00:10:27] Yeah, you're made accountable for making a mistake on Andy Hessentiler's football boots. And again, it was brilliant for me. Responsibility, accountability. Yeah. We've said it numerous times throughout the season. It's not just this season. But when you go for a bad spell, throw the kids in or hungry, fall rich, you know what I mean? And a lot of managers will go default to say, we need to sign someone where, look downwards instead of kind of signing someone who's maybe not as good as someone coming through. Just give them a little bit of a chance.
[00:10:57] And I don't think we're there. It was Ramel Donovan was the last kind of kid that come through, wasn't it? And he's at Brentford now. Yeah. Ramel, again, was a talented player when I was here. Yeah. But he had different problems off the field where he was late and things like that. Now as a kid, like, you can't be doing that. You've got to be respectful and you've got to do your job properly. Now he's a top player because he's in Brentford. So he's had to realise that to change. Maybe he needed to get away from Birmingham as well.
[00:11:22] When you look at it, it was I needed to get away from Watford to sort of change the way that I was when hanging around. I drank a lot when I was younger. I'm not afraid to say that. Wasn't proud of it. Didn't make me big. It just, it made me feel, it made me feel good. But I knew if I carried on that, then I wouldn't go to the levels I needed to get to. So was that kind of breaking through? Yeah, breaking through. Feeling yourself. Yeah, breaking through. It was the pressure. It was my pressure was I need to go. I hang around with elder men.
[00:11:52] So again, my brother and his mates and my cousins and that would always look after me. But I felt like that was my outlet. The pressures of getting away from the football side of it now where I was involved with the first team. I needed a drink. Whereas it's a lot different now with the kids. It's like the social media, they're going out late and different things. They've got good things, but they're different. Again, but distractions away from what it could be like to be a top, top footballer. Of course. Whereas, yeah, then obviously administration was kicking in with Watford.
[00:12:21] And then the opportunity for me to go and go to West Brom was a, yeah, it was a lease of life that I knew that I needed to go away from where I was brought up. Yeah, you definitely didn't need to worry about the glitzy nightlife of West Brom, each town centre. No, no, no. No, I didn't. I did a few times when we got promoted and celebrations and that. Yeah, it was good. We enjoyed them nights. But yeah, it was, no, I stayed aside. I stayed over the nice side where I was by the M40 closer to home. Yeah. To get back and see family. So you got spotted at nine then. Was you a big lad?
[00:12:51] Was you a, what were your attributes? Was you always a defender? No, no. I was a striker when I was growing up. Yeah, I played up front for S&K. I would play up front or wide left. That were my natural positions. For the county, then when I was getting picked for the county, I was a left winger. And it was Kenny Jackett, really. So Kenny Jackett was obviously, he came through Watford as well. He was my youth team manager at the time. And he believed that he could transform me into a left back like Kenny. Obviously, I liked getting forward as well. So that role would become norm for me.
[00:13:19] But then obviously it was just understanding your defensive duties with being compact and switching on. So yeah, so it took me a while to get used to it. But then I grew into it. And yeah, 15 years on, you play that position and it becomes the norm. Do you ever regret that? No, no, no, not at all. No, I loved learning sort of like, obviously as a striker, I loved scoring goals and being in good positions. I played in good teams. In my grassroots teams, it was a good team. You always got good service. You knew where you were going to be. Right, just put it in the goal.
[00:13:49] Then your left wing, obviously I was quick. I was direct. I wasn't, I wasn't, I was light. I was quite a lightweight child. So I knew the physicality side of it. If I come up against a bigger one, I had to be smarter. So I learned that side of the game as well. But then obviously, then the defending side of it and you're coming up against men, you've got to be a little bit more robust. You've got to be physical. You've also got to defend the post knowing that wingers are coming behind you. Yeah. And then when you play against top quality players in the championship and the league one at the time, it was, yeah, the wingers, they're totally different.
[00:14:18] They're quick. They're powerful. They're aggressive. So yeah, your game's got to develop and change differently. Yeah. So West Brom then. So the season you went there, was that the season? 2003, 2004. Yeah, we got promoted. That was a promotion season, wasn't it? Yeah. What do you recall of that? Yeah, it was. When I first went in there, obviously I knew I was competing against a player like Neil Clement. The squad was brilliant. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:46] Real top quality player, Clem was. So I knew, but that's the challenge in football. You've got to go into these clubs and you've got to compete against these players. And yeah, I had no problem with that. And we had a real good bond. There was a good togetherness. It was a bit like Watford. It was a family club. It was a well-run club. And yeah, you knew that when you were going to play, you had to compete against players like Neil. So yeah, I got my opportunity against Norwich at home. That was my debut. And we won the game 1-0. And it was a real, for me, it was just a solid performance.
[00:15:16] I knew what I needed to do. Yeah. And obviously, you know what you've got to do to keep the shirt. That's the way football is. Yeah. You've got to play your own game. You've got to do well for the team. And yeah, it was a real good game for me to go in and be involved in. And it just went from strength to strength. Yes, there was games where me and Neil would change because Gary Megson liked a wing-back position as well. So I would play left wing-back. Sometimes Clem would play left side centre-half. So yeah, we would mix it and chop and change a bit.
[00:15:45] But yeah, it was a real good year for us that year, going back up to the Premier League. And we had a good squad. Obviously, then Gary would start to change that squad a little bit more because of now the Premier League was getting to that stage where the foreign imports were coming in and every squad was getting stronger with that. So yeah, he felt we needed to add a little bit more quality to survive in the Premier League. Yeah. Yeah, because to be fair, I'd seen your Blues TV interview before and it was the best player you played against. Yeah. And it was Ronaldo.
[00:16:15] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay then. I mean, there's loads. I mean, I was lucky enough to play against the best. My generation, they were the best. And they were the best out-and-out wingers that you would come up against. It's like when I watch football now, it's like I look at the full-backs against the wingers and it's like... Coming back in, I don't know. Oh, it's like the full-backs didn't you? And that's the norm with football now. It's like a winger likes beating someone. Coming back, oh, I want to beat you again.
[00:16:44] Then the defender wins the ball and it's like, well, you didn't quite work that way. Come back in, invert, come across that way, then back that way. Yeah. Whereas back then... Out and out. Just go and meet them on the barn on. For God's sake. So you'd like your Beckhams or your Rinaldos. Beckham was totally different. Rinaldo would go left foot, right foot. But he was quick. He was direct. Joe Cole was both footed. Left or right foot. Sean Ryan Phillips, right foot. Iron Robin would come inside on his left foot. So you knew whatever he was coming up against. You've got a different game every day. Different game. Beckham, he wouldn't beat you.
[00:17:14] He would stay wide. Ball out of his feet. Whip it in straight away for crosses. He's like, into Van Nistel, Andy Cole, the White Yorks. Like, thank you very much. Go on. What have you got to do with that? Then have you got to try and stop him crossing? Have you got to get out too early or he'd sit off and know he's going to come in? It's just gauging your distances, yeah. If you go out too early, you were worried about the runners of Paul Scholes in them gaps. Like your Steven Gerrards. It's like, you were always worried about them midfield runners. When you looked at Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard, you couldn't go wide straight away too early
[00:17:41] because now you're exposing that gap of them midfield runners. So you knew you had to wait for that right moment to, when that ball was switching, now you were going. But that run, because you were so worried about the gap of the runners, your distances-wise were sort of like a little bit off a little bit. So you knew you had to gauge it at the right times. But then you knew you gauged if you were going, your left side centre half was coming across and you were covering them gaps. That's what you're hoping is that that player that you played with was making sure that when you went, we all went as a team.
[00:18:11] But plenummanship, sometimes, that's impossible. And we're endless. That split second, because of the quality, the pace, the power, it's like they're gone. They're gone. Yeah. So out of all your games, just going back slightly, how did you avoid injury? Because them amount of games, you must have been... Well, I got no ACL on my right knee. That was the... So that was the one really that obviously I failed. Still with all those games as well. I failed a couple of medicals with that. Sunderland and Wigan. Obviously, Sunderland knew.
[00:18:40] They didn't know about my knee. I didn't know about my knee. But no idea. So when I went for my medical at Sunderland, they made a big thing of it. And yeah, I think that was probably my lowest point in my career was that one, the Sunderland medical, because it was my wife's 30. If I'd planned a weekend away in Rome, I got the phone call on the Thursday to go to Sunderland for my medical. West Brom had agreed a fee in the regions of something like 2.5 million, rising to 3 million, that was.
[00:19:10] So went all the way up to Sunderland on the Friday, had my medical done, flew to Rome Friday afternoon when my wife landed in Rome Friday afternoon, got a phone call, you've got to come back to Sunderland. I was like, no, no, no. What are you talking about? Like, there's something come up on your medical. I was like, what do you mean? So you think, nothing wrong with me. Like, I've not missed any games. You didn't even feel anything? Nothing. I remember when I was at Watford, I remember going for a header and I remember landing awkwardly
[00:19:39] and I felt a twinge in my knee, but nothing. Didn't think anything of it. Just carried on, played the game. But then obviously when you do your research, you can be born with no ACLs as well. It's like a, it's weird. But did I think it might have gone then when I went for that header? I don't know. I honestly don't know because my knee ballooned, didn't balloon. Like a lot of players that I know that have had an ACL is that they've tried to play on their knees. I feel like a lot more hair. Yeah, got unstable and their knees ballooned. So yeah, so I just, I got on with that.
[00:20:09] But then obviously the Sunderland scenario was, it was a shambles the way it was handled. I had to fly back from Rome. Obviously your wife's then crying all the way on the plane back to, we had to fly back to Sunderland to go for a second medical. So I had to, on the Saturday morning then when we arrived back Friday evening, we had to go to this place where, I don't know, it was about a 40 minute drive from the hotel. I don't know where it was because my mind now was just a blur
[00:20:39] because I was not understanding what was going on. No one was speaking to me from their side. Obviously the medical staff was keeping everything in house. I've seen this specialist who was a specialist with rugby players, which obviously they can cope with ACL injuries because they strap it and obviously the power that they have, it's quite the norm for them. So he did all these knee tests with me and I was like, look, can you actually explain to me what the issue is? Because no one's explained to me. We've been in Rome.
[00:21:08] You've dragged me all the way back here and no one spoke to me about anything with what's going on. So he just said, oh, well, you've got something wrong with your knee. We're not quite sure. He said, but I'm feeling your knee and there's nothing. Like there's no issues with it. I was like, I don't understand it. Like I need you to tell me what's going on with my knee. He said, oh, I'll leave that to the physio. So I come out of this room. He's done all the tests. Like knee felt fine. Blah, blah, blah.
[00:21:39] Obviously physios drove us back to the hotel quiet the whole way. Not said nothing. Still nothing? Still nothing, this physio. So I'm thinking, wife's still crying out in the taxi now because we're having to go back to Sunderland and wait even more. Got back to the hotel all night. Roy Keane was the manager at the time. I never even met Roy. Roy was back in Ireland doing his badges. So he never even come over. And then he phoned me later on in the evening and he just said, look, unfortunately, Paul, we're not going to go ahead with the signing of you. And I was like,
[00:22:08] can you please explain to me why? Well, my physios basically told me that you've got a knee problem and your knee's going to explode in two years. So like from insurance wise, we can't insure you. And I was like, you what? So yeah, so you can now, imagine my mind now. It's like, I have no idea what's going on. So obviously, Tony Mowbray was the West Brom manager at the time. Explain the situation to him. How far into your tenure was you at West Brom? That was 2000
[00:22:38] and that was the year after we missed out on the playoffs. So what was that? Five, six? Might be six, seven. I'm just trying to work out the numbers that you've done after. Yeah, it might be. Your knee didn't go. It might have been that. Yeah, it might be. Was you mindful then though? After the playing, thinking my knee might go. So did Mowbray and West Brom, did they get the report from Sunderland then or did they just keep all that to themselves? No, they had to send the report back to West Brom because they had to show them all what was going on. But I had all my medicals done at West Brom when I first signed from Watford
[00:23:08] and nothing showed up. I was going to say, it's a West Brom physio then. Yeah, so they knew that there was no problems. Yeah. Which was strange. But then obviously, then when I got found out that that wasn't going through, Steve Brewsting was the Wigan manager at the time and he called me and he said, we want to sign you. So I went straight from Sunderland to have a medical at Wigan and they knew everything now about my knee. So they knew my knee was fine.
[00:23:38] They knew that I'd had no injuries, blah, blah, blah. Failed me on my back. Oh, what? So that was me. My head had gone now. My head had gone. So I just called off everything. You had a back problem either? No, because they basically didn't want to insure my knee either. That's what they were basically doing. The thing is though, for considering at that time as well, the money involved with the Premier League clubs, like Peter Unloved down here from, we signed him on a par as you play because of his injury problems. He ended up playing over many hundred games. Yeah.
[00:24:07] But was that not a thing then even suggesting? No, because the money was a big problem. Like they say, the big fees that they wanted to pay. Yeah. Wigan had agreed the same fee as what Sunderland had. So it was the same 2.5 going on to 3 million. And they obviously then made an excuse of going, we know that there's possibly an issue with his knee, but we might struggle to get insure them. So we're going to have to say something different. So yeah, some have failed on my back. Yeah. But every player that will go for a medical, it will show wear and tear on your body
[00:24:36] because of how intense the game is. Awesome. So I just said, nah, I'm staying at West Brom. Like you just, you've messed me around. Like for West Brom, obviously they're losing out on possibly getting that money. But at the end of the day, it was my career. And I wanted to get my head down and I wanted to get back playing football with West Brom. And that was the way it ended was is that then I stayed there until I signed for Bolton in 2010. So yeah, but it was, yeah, it was a mess. I didn't actually, when, so while the, they were all faffing around with these medicals
[00:25:05] and obviously with what was going on, I then went and had a force place test done in London, which is to test the strength of your knee. Right. And everything, my right leg was stronger than my left and I'm left footed. And then I'll just prove the point is that and your knees never exploded. My knees never exploded. No, and I've never had to touch wood. Is that wood? And laminate. Let me find a bit of wood. Touch wood affects laminate. There we go. Bit of wood. I've got to touch that. But yes, you never,
[00:25:35] no. Rest your career, they're not even a twinge. But that's the hardest thing is people working in football that for you as a player, it's like you don't realise how much of an effect that will have on that player and they'll tell him that. So when he broke me that news, it was like, what are you talking about? I've no issues. Because even when I went to see the specialist, the guy was like going, where's your scar? I was like, but I still hadn't been told what my problem was. So he was going, where's your scar? I can't see a scar. So they're trying to say that you're not telling, you're not disclosing.
[00:26:05] they were trying to say that I was covering. I said, that injury's like at least, that's a nine month injury to 12 months, depending on how bad the knee is. I still think you're having a massive, no he has, he's definitely had it done. Where's your scar? Yeah, where's your scar? And that's what baffled me because they still hadn't explained that, but yet they were worried about like, he was looking for a scar. Even when he was doing my knee, he was looking for like keyhole, the scars. I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So at what point has someone told you
[00:26:35] the specifics of what the thought it was then? Roy King, when he called me. That was the only time? That was the only time physio didn't like, yeah. Wow. Yeah, hopeless. Hopeless, yeah. So yeah, so my mind was all over the place at the time because you're then thinking of, I've got two years but my knee's going to explode or I've got no ACL. I've got no ACL. It's like, what's going to happen? Is that in the back of your moment you're playing then? Not when I had the force plate test done
[00:27:05] because that was off season. So I had that before I went back for pre-season with West Brom. Tony Mowbray gave me an extra week to get my head right because he knew what I'd been through and he was like, Robbo, he's like, just take an extra week because I know you've been up and down the country. You've not actually had a break. So you need to switch off with your family for a bit now and then when you come back in, make sure you're ready. And then when I just hit the ground running, I was like, nothing wrong with me. What was that? Mentally? Yeah, mentally. That was the first time
[00:27:34] I probably hit the drink again from my Watford days properly in the sense of is that I needed something to take my mind away from what's going on. Yeah. From like that adulation then to... Yeah. Obviously you were deflated because you just lost in the playoff final. So you had all that. Then you've had two failed medicals. You've had all that. Like your wife looking for houses as well within that period of the area where you're going to go. Kids schooling as well. You're looking for kids schooling and then obviously it's like, I'm staying. Like,
[00:28:04] well, what? Just get, I didn't get my head down to get on with it. Bloody hell. So yeah. That's mental. That's never easy for a professional football player. No, he doesn't, his fans don't see this though, do they? No. No. Just to roll back then, happier times at West Brom with the greatest game. So your first great escape. Yes. Yeah. This is one that broke you into being a great escape specialist. What do you remember of that season? Obviously down, bottom at Christmas, everyone's ripped you off. Yeah. It was a rollercoaster season
[00:28:34] for us. Obviously, the Premier League can do that to you as a group of players. We couldn't find a win. We was on a bad run under Gary. No fault of Gary. It was the players. For me, you players, you have to look at yourselves when you go into a game. You're the one that's been given all the tactical advice. You're the one that's got to deliver the message on the football pitch and we wasn't doing that. Confidence then hit because obviously as a player, your confidence hits low. So yeah, so obviously
[00:29:04] then Gary ended up losing his job and... Got it in the neck quite badly from the fans. he got it bad. Yeah. I remember that. And he'd done an amazing job at the club. And yeah, it was hard. It was hard to see it. It was hard to see it. But some fans obviously would relate to Gary with what he'd done but some fans would not relate to the way that he was and how he would conduct himself. That was obviously the difference between some of the fans but in my eyes as a player, he developed me
[00:29:33] and made me the player as well with all the other managers the way that I wanted to play the game. And then obviously then Brian Robson came in and it was like, well, like, he just walked through the door and it was just that aura of him that you could just see the presence and Nigel Pearson next to him and obviously Craig Shakespeare was in the background at West Brom at the time anyway. So we had a good group of coaches there who obviously goalkeeping coach was Joe Corrigan as well, legend.
[00:30:03] So yeah, so the characters in the staff now had gone to that next level of like, we can't be below standards now because we know what's coming and Brian expected the Man United standards and that's what he brought. He brought, he brought like players like Kevin Campbell in who understood the Premier League and he was a great leader wherever he went. Steve Watson was another great character so he came in. Obviously the young lads like Richard Chaplow, Kieran Richardson, they all added to the quality of the squad. Yeah, and we just,
[00:30:33] we kicked on. We had a nice little trip to America which was... We've heard a little bit about that if you want to... Which was, again... Unorthodox. Yes. I think the reasonings behind it was is that was to get away from all the negativity. Obviously the other side of the world is the best place to go because if you go to Portugal, you go to Spain, you know that there's still that possibility of fans will find out where you're at. Cameras, photos, yeah, this is what they're doing, this is how they're doing it. Whereas you go to America, it's like no one knows
[00:31:02] who you are. Everyone could switch off and it was just... Yeah, it brought the best out of all of us. We all got to know each other individually, we got to know each other as a group of players. The staff did like days where we'd have bonding sessions and we just all clicked. But then as soon as we got off that plane, it was like, right, we're back in mode now of we need to survive. Like, this is where we're at now. It's either do or die. You need to roll your sleeves up. So, yeah, I didn't play for the first
[00:31:32] 10 games under Brian because obviously Neil Clement then come back into the fold. So, again, for me, it was about I need to get my head down. I need to work. But I want to learn off someone like Brian and I want to develop off Nigel Pearson who I knew, again, was a solid defender. Learned off him training, his levels, his expectations of what it was for defenders. Yeah, I'm like, when I get my chance now, I'm ready. And I got that chance at Christmas at White Man City of all the places and we went there and we got a 1-1
[00:32:01] and we were down to 10 men and it was like that sort of that turning point was wow, we can go and do this now. Yeah, and we just went from strength to strength and it was, yeah, going into that last week there was a great buzz around the place and you knew that we just needed to get our job done. Obviously, you're relying on other teams to do the business but we know that that's never going to happen. That was a mad ending. So, yeah, so it was a real, we knew that Fulham were beating Norwich and it was now, it was Crystal Palace and Cholton at the time
[00:32:30] that we needed that result to sort of be a draw and we would be safe. We got our job done against Portsmouth, we beat Portsmouth 2-0. So, quite comfortable in the end. comfortable in the end and obviously then obviously you had the Portsmouth fans they were all wearing West Brom shirts because they wanted Southampton to go down. Yeah, that's it, yeah. So, yeah, so it was a great atmosphere. Did Jeff say that Brian Hughes scored for Cholton and who's someone scored for Palace that was down here as well? Andy Johnson. Andy Johnson. Yeah, Andy Johnson scored, yeah. Yeah, so it was crazy.
[00:33:00] But yeah, it was just an unbelievable feeling. You get to sort of, our game had finished but their game was still going on. They'd gone into added time so we still didn't know what was going on. Obviously, you could feel the tension in the crowd as the game, like our game was, the Hawthorns, it was like, you could, it was really quiet. I remember seeing the images of people like that on there. That's before smartphones as well and it was the radios. We were winning 2-0 but we knew that Palace were winning 2-1. Yeah. So we were like, oh my God, like, it's not going our way. We're going to go down and then all of a sudden this roar went up
[00:33:30] and we were like, oh my God, Charlton have equalised. It was, yeah, and then the final whistle went and that was it. Yeah, the fans on the pitch and yeah, the lads all celebrating. It was, yeah, it was a great day. It was a great day but I always look at it, it's like, I hate celebrating after just surviving. No, like for me, it's like, should never be in their positions. I look at the players that I was with in the dressing room and we've got too much quality to be in their positions and it was, it was a, yes, a fantastic achievement for the club
[00:34:00] but on a personal level, I hated it. I wanted to be a winner. I wanted to, I wanted to finish high in the league and I wanted to do well. Yeah, and it was, yeah, it was, there was a lot of emotions again. That one was, yeah, brought up a lot of, obviously with what I'd gone through with West Brom, with years before, it was, yeah, it was, yeah, the 2003, the promotion to just surviving and things like that. It was that relief of going, we've got all that hard work to get there is like, we've just, we've just done, we've just survived by the skin of our teeth and I don't want to be in that situation.
[00:34:30] I wanted to, like stay there for years to come with West Brom. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, to be fair, Richie Welling, yesterday, he had an interview for Lightning Rhythm saying pretty much the same thing, you know, celebrating, staying up, get out, get yourselves gone, get changed, nothing to be proud of. But, in regards to then, so, your first promotion for playoffs, Watford, I just want to take it back because, obviously doing research, that was our first playoff, the heartbreaker losing to Watford. So,
[00:34:59] you played the first leg, didn't you? Yes, got two yellow cards, got sent off. So, you didn't, yeah, so you didn't get to see the second leg. I was here, no, I was in the stand, I was coming and saying the Watford end with the Watford fans, unreal. I've never asked anyone how that felt from the other side because that for us was absolutely heartbreaking. I mean, the experience from like, but the atmosphere, like when you come to St Andrews and it's like that, it's like, oh my God, you, like this is, this place is ferocious. You have got to go down, you've got to silence them fans. That was what Graham Taylor's messages were all week, were, look,
[00:35:29] we need to go there, we need to silence the fans because when them fans get behind them players, them players go to that next level. It's going to be hard to nullify it then. Obviously, when you're there and you're like, I get goosebumps now talking about it because you're sitting here in this stadium when it's rocking, what feeling? Yeah, it's a feeling. For an away player to go there as well, it's like that buzz when the subs and they're like, ooh, it's like, yeah, it's brilliant. I loved it. I did, I loved it. I just laughed to myself when they used to do it. But then you experience it first and when you're then
[00:35:59] as a player for Blues, you get it and you, yeah, come on then, let's go. We have to lift, we have to lift the fans. We've got to get them behind us. We know if we get the fans behind us that like all the away fans, they're all players, they're gone, they're mentally gone because of the atmosphere. So yeah, that night was electric and obviously losing on penalties, like yeah, it's tough to take. But yeah, from Watford's point of view, it was a well-earned, hard-fought couple of legs
[00:36:28] because the first leg was tight. It was a real tight affair and then coming to St Andrews and yeah, knowing that you've, obviously, Alec Chamberlain in goal pulling the saves off. Was it Matt Holland? It's the last one, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah, it's just deflating. It's a horrible way of losing, Chris Holland. It's a horrible way of losing like a playoff is the penalties. Even in the final when you watch like the games later on in life with the Sunderlands with Mickey Gray losing to Sunderland, it's like, it's the worst feeling. It is the worst feeling.
[00:36:57] You still talk to Aidsis, Dad, isn't it? Mickey Graham, Sunderland still gets some powders for it and he's still in the RR. Because no one will ever let him get away with that now when it's like, no matter what he did the year before they got promoted, you'll always be remembered for missing that penalty in the playoff final. So on that as well, kind of a tenuous link with football fans a lot, aren't they? So how did you find it just jumping forward a little bit then? Coming here, did you have any blowback or did it take a while to settle in? I know Damien Johnson after the injury said there was no bones about it
[00:37:26] was or he was fine with it. But did you feel like you had to kind of win the fans over? Yeah, I wanted to win the fans over. And be for West Brom as well. Yeah, West Brom, I think like you say that local rivalry even though it wasn't a local. It was a nice rivalry. But for me, it was about I was signing for a big club. Birmingham's a big club in my eyes. No matter what anyone says, it's a big, big club. And I knew that I had to go in there and just, like you say, get up and running. I wanted to show the fans what I was all about for them now. What I've previously done for opposition teams
[00:37:56] come in here and they'd seen me play it was like, yeah. Well, I was going to say so for Watford you were a hero. You were kind of like an anti-hero for other fans and I think you embraced that a little bit whereas you were a hero for Watford other fans didn't like you. West Brom, you were the same. Blues, you were the same. But I think what won you over particularly for us and probably the West Brom and stuff like that is just your work ethic and we spoke about this in previous podcasts. You just come on, you give it everything and in no short time you're kind of like, yeah, we like him. He's here for the...
[00:38:26] You're in that column of bars, aren't you? That you hate them against you because they're so hard, they're so no nonsense but to have you on the team then, so thank God he's on our team and not the other team. You kind of fall into that category, don't you? Yeah, I used to get that from a lot of fans. It was like, we hated you when you played the X's but we'd love to have signed you. That's what you'd get. But yeah, but like you say, when I first signed for Blues I knew the issues. I knew the problems that would come up, would occur and I just had to deal with it face on. It's like, it's football, these things happen and there was no maliciousness to Damien whatsoever
[00:38:55] and yeah, down the line, obviously where I've seen him coaching at Blackburn and like you say, we've had a good chat and we've talked about the good old times, it's football and he was the same player. He was a winner. He wanted to get stuck in and it was just one of those unfortunate things on the football pitch. But yeah, but when I came here it was like, obviously playing here. So just on that, so you signed, we had two fit defenders. Yeah, I know, crazy. So you've come in on an emergency loan one month deal. Lee Clark, yeah, phoned me, he was like, because I had had a chat with Lee in the summer as well so it was weird because obviously
[00:39:25] he couldn't do anything the financial side of it obviously with the club not knowing like what the wages were and he just sort of said look Robbo, I have got a load of defenders at the time and you might struggle to get in the team and I said, okay, well I'm prepared to come and fight for my place. It was like I wanted to come to Birmingham I wanted to sign for the club and he just said I just can't do it this moment in time so it was fine, it was fine but yeah, then obviously the injury crisis happens and your phone rings May again Alright, alright Robbo
[00:39:55] and his Geordie accent and I'm like, alright, hello, he's Clarkie I was like, alright Lee, how are you mate? He goes, I need you to come to Wost Hills and to the training ground, I need you to have a look at you and I was like, what? What's going on here? He said, oh we've had a real bad injury crisis at the back and I'm struggling for defenders and obviously transferring the shots so he's got to look at free transfers to fill the void for now and so yeah, so nothing was agreed with my contract it was just go down and train and have a look at you for a couple of days and literally within that couple of days it was like,
[00:40:24] we want to get you on a month's contract Get you in straight away so it was like, for me then it was like, let's go I just got to hit the ground running Longest month ever? Yeah, well God, you get to the end of the month and you're like, am I getting another month? I used to be knocking on his door Did you have to use to go in month by month and be like? Month by month it was like, well he'd pull you and he'd just go, yeah, got another month for a boat it's alright like that but yeah, you would have to knock on the door and you'd go, have another month and he'd be like, not sure yet, got to wait and it was, you just know,
[00:40:56] he knew no matter what I would just get on with it and I would just try and do my job as best as possible he said it wouldn't affect me and that was the relationship that we had and it was great because I wanted to repay him for what he did for me he got me back in football so I wanted to come in and I wanted to help Lee Clark as much as as much as possible and that was the great thing about it How long was he here? While you signed that and when did you get the contract? When did you get a month of contract? And then it was so I got a year after that so in the end
[00:41:26] we had the end of the season got to the end of the season and then Lee would have his meetings with all the players about whether they were staying or whether they were going and obviously you would come in one by one so I came in and obviously I sat down on the desk and he just looked at me and he just smiled he went you've got another year, Robbo and I was like we're buzzing we just hug each other and I was like brilliant nice one, Gaffa and then that year obviously then he named me captain because Steve Caldwell had left and he'd gone to Toronto he signed for Toronto so
[00:41:56] yeah it was the perfect start to what was going to be a fantastic year off of yeah it was amazing to be named as the captain for this club obviously it's a great honour and I loved every minute of it Did you know Lee from before playing that? Playing against him yeah so I played against him when he was at Fulham Newcastle he was a great player he was not that much older no Lee was he mid-50s yeah so I played against him when he was in his prime yeah what a midfield player Lee was yeah and you could see it in his lad
[00:42:26] as well Bobby when he was here in the academy yeah yeah you could see exactly the same sort of qualities of player and he's like you say he's gone on well where is he now because he was on loan at Derby wasn't he yeah yeah he didn't really get didn't really get a chance did he? no he was at Liverpool wasn't he done really well for Liverpool and obviously he went and signed for Red Bull because the assistant when their pet Linders went there and then he signed him and then he's obviously gone to Derby on loan and he's yeah he's had a good season and they just missed out
[00:42:56] on the playoffs unfortunately so runs in the family good players brilliant so that period then down here yeah let's talk about that period so being club captain team captain did you feel like how you said you thought you know that was that was going to be a good season for us how how did that play out then for you what are your memories of that season? it was tough yeah it was tough because we got a good group of like loan players in to start with
[00:43:25] so like your Jesse Lingard your Dan Burns also gelling with your Damari Grays and your Nathan Redmans and players like that was yeah it was a real good Ravel Morrison came in he was another player who was on that next level yeah and you felt something special was going to happen here with it and then obviously it all got broken up in January and then we went on a terrible run we could win a game at home and then obviously Lee ended up losing his job after the Bournemouth game which no sorry
[00:43:55] not the the Bournemouth one before the Bournemouth one sorry it was the week before he lost his job and then we ended up going to the Bournemouth game and I mean yeah it was just horrendous absolutely horrendous that feeling and then that's when Gary Rowett came in and obviously Gary Rowett changed it he stabilised us he brought a little bit of stability back to the team he brought a little bit of a togetherness again because there was a few divides obviously the confidence again was low with losing games you claim Donaldson's we have good players David Cottrell's
[00:44:25] real good group of lads but they just needed guidance and Gary then brought that back knowing what was going on off the field yeah it was it was a real sort of like again of getting ourselves back on our feet but it was it was a tough season again like from the start to then the ending it was it was one of those that survival period again of yeah not knowing and then obviously like the survival from the Bolton situation you didn't ever want that to happen again it was like my god what is going on here
[00:44:55] like I just can't keep going through this because I'm I'm losing my head going through it all the time these survival battles and it was like the club obviously financially no one really knew what was going on because it was you never knew who you were speaking to or what was going like people around the place you never knew to talk to it was just a mess it was a mess and yeah I mean we were in such a precarious position there whether the the club was just going to go and yeah and that's what I thought but the Bolton game for me
[00:45:24] I thought it was do or die if we lose and we get relegated I believe that the club would just go into the abyss and it would be the hard to come back from that that's the way I felt in the building of what was going on you could sense it from the outside as well with the fans and the pressure putting all of that on top of the players we had a young group so it was like trying to manage the players not only manage myself but manage the group of players as well and you've got to give credit to the players because they these young kids
[00:45:54] they would have never experienced something like that for them now that's a life skill that's something that they've had to experience and go through for now and later on in life will make them stronger with what they've had to deal with and I think the obviously like Lee created like a montage of going into the game of like the family speaking and he got us in a room and we just bawled our eyes out this was before the game and you're like thinking oh my god like I'm watching a video and my family's all been filmed we had no idea
[00:46:23] what was going on but it was like they're motivational if you can't take motivation from seeing that but now you're emotionally that added pressure of going into that game off trying to perform and get it and then when you go 2-0 down you're like oh my god it's like where do we go where do we go from here but it was always trying to be positive trying to keep the lads on their toes trying to like keep them going again was it you who was cracking up yeah and I think everyone as well like you still had like your Chris Burks you had your Hayden Mullins that were there as well your senior players
[00:46:52] they were driving it it wasn't just me it was them as well they were trying to drive the standards and obviously Ziggy like good lads who wanted to do well you had young lads who understand what the club means to them they're trying to push themselves through that brick wall of going we need to get back in this and then when you get that one goal back and then when the second goal goes in it's like that relief and you're like oh my god and then you see the celebrations the fans you see Clarkie running down the touchline
[00:47:21] into the crowd it's like for him that pressure of knowing what he's had to deal with financially but again like for the fans like celebrating with the fans it meant a lot to him and you could see it even when he was by himself that week he distanced himself I know I spoke about it in other podcasts he distanced himself you could see he wasn't himself because he was holding a lot of stuff back from the players that he didn't want them to know that he was getting from above yeah of course he would have been but also it's like you say it's a pressure for a manager it's like that thought of knowing not knowing where this club
[00:47:51] is going to be if we get relegated everyone looks at him because he's the manager and yeah you could just see the relief in his eyes and how he felt and yeah it was just a lot of mixed emotions to get the job done and to know that we were secure again but that's I think the isolated I felt from that of taking myself away of going I need to just switch off from my family now because that is that pressure has gone to the next level of what I've ever experienced before
[00:48:21] obviously as a captain and as a footballer as well that was intense yeah well it is we look at it when Jeremy Dow said when he came in we were three months away from the wall and that was with Nighthead and the situation we were in there if we'd have gone then it's done and it's and that's what I say fans never knew but until Jeremy comes out and that's what clubs need to understand is that if you're relaying their messages back to the fans then the fans appreciate that a little bit more but there was no messages coming not even to the players so the fans weren't getting messages because they didn't know
[00:48:51] what was going on we weren't getting messages as players because we never knew where we were stat where we stood as players and it was just a whole like again a car crash situation where you're thinking what is going on what is going which one do you think is the most impressive feat out of the West Brom and Blues Gratis gaps fourth it's a tight one I think the West Brom one would be in bottom at Christmas and the magnitude of it with like you say Premier League football and
[00:49:20] yeah I mean the Birmingham one is just inches close to it it is because of the differences in knowing of where the club would have been from a Birmingham situation but I would just say the West Brom one edge is it I think it's been done since has it no it's not been done since no it's like a rollercoaster speaking to they definitely make you a stronger person which is I've got thick skin as a person anyway but yeah
[00:49:51] it definitely challenges as a human being them situations yeah so that Bolton game you'd just come back haven't you yes I got a three game suspension 15 other cards but the Forest one was a joke I mean I'd say it I didn't know but what I'd say was is the referees they'd already marked my card because they knew what type of player I was and they do it with other players now when you see it they've always got their eye on a player straight away their first tackle it's like a yellow card and you look at and you just go just let the
[00:50:20] game flow for a bit if he does the next one then obviously yeah that is a yellow card but it was straight away and then you think oh my god now I'm treading on eggshells I've got to be really careful now the disappointing thing was the way the referee had done it he knew straight away and I knew what he was going to do and I just thought you've done this on purpose have you had that your whole career then the certain referees as soon as I was walking down the tunnel the referees would look at you and go be a good
[00:50:50] boy today Robbo and you'd be like yeah here we go put your name in I'll put your name in no kind of thing I mean there was a prime example of a Man United West Brom playing Man United I've gone for a 50-50 with Park G sung and we've both slid in and we've both got the ball and the refs give me a straight red because Sir Alex Ferguson's in the fourth officials here but they're the things you look at and you go what are you seeing there and then it
[00:51:20] gets rescinded it's like my Birmingham Walls one when I got sent off for that rabbit punch that they said I did but the commentator's giving it the old Andy Hinchcliffe saying oh Robbo's rabbit punched him there and it's like no I haven't if you like actually if you zoom in and if there was VAR then they would have slowed it down and they would have seen I'd have just pushed him off me but then that one gets rescinded but that could have cost us points because we could have lost that game luckily we won the game 2-1 but a different game that could have changed and we could have lost it but them little
[00:51:49] things you look at and you go yeah they're the ones where you look out for them type of players and they'll go yeah I've got his card straight away I know what I'm going to do with him as you're walking out you go Robbo be a good boy I'm never going to change my game I played on the edge I was a winner I wanted to play I wanted to get stuff in if you get yellow early doors it changes your game yeah of course it does but I always played on the edge anyway as a player I was always that type of person if there was a ball that was 50-50 I was going for it I wasn't pulling out
[00:52:19] if I got hurt so be it I got hurt that was the way it was that was football do you think that's why fans love you as a player for their club so much even just listening to you talk yeah I think fans love me because they would get a buzz from it of knowing that he's fully committed he understands but I also was a good footballer that was going to be my question we have that quite a lot one of the questions that we're asking here is a lot of the players that we have come in like yourself that wore your heart on your sleeve there's no
[00:52:49] real recognition of your actual technical ability as a footballer so you've got under 21 England caps you've played at the highest level you've played Premier League football for a large period of your actual career that's more than just being willing to do the dirty yeah I knew I could play football and my game evolved and I knew I was a good footballer but people never saw that he just likes to tackle he likes getting stuck in but that West Brom team when we played football
[00:53:18] everyone talks about the game the way it's played now you go back and watch it back then that era as well the game was played they played football teams played football good football and yeah that was probably my best footballing period was at West Brom where I played my best football as an individual yeah I really enjoyed and having licence to come forward and wing back rather than batting down the ashes assists and goals
[00:53:47] I played with freedom we've missed the goal you scored against Villa the header yeah oh yeah you're back here goal of the season as well wasn't it yeah goal of the season I think that was just because it was against Villa I couldn't class a header as a goal of the season but yeah it was just one of those moments where last nine minutes of the game we need an equaliser and I can hear Brian Robson shouting at me Robbo go on get forward and I've got Jeff Orsfield
[00:54:17] going go on chipmunk he's shouting and I'm like look go on horse Jesus so I'm running obviously I can see the build up on the right hand side with Ricardo Schimica and Zoltangira lovely little link up and then I'm thinking ball's coming in here I think it was Lee Endry on the back post and he had no idea where I was at or Mark Delaney it was one of them it was one of them two and they were both facing the ball and it's my pet ape because I teach my defenders to open their shoulders up when they're defending the back post and making sure that you
[00:54:47] know where your attacker is when that ball's coming in and they didn't have a clue where I was and I can see the cross coming in and I could see the flight of it and I'm thinking oh it's coming my way so my first thought was just keep your eyes open and make sure you got that contact with the ball perfect on the flush of your forehead and it just landed perfect I mean there was a little flick from the front post of one of the Aston Bitter defenders and then I've just yeah just put it in the net and yeah I mean the joy but the best thing about it was is that when we got back on the
[00:55:17] coach the table come up on the coach and at that point took us out the bottom three so it's the first time we've been out the bottom three all season and it was just the coach erupted like we were like oh yeah like that and we're thinking we've got to go Man United next week and we're like calm down lads like yeah we'll enjoy this moment yeah we'll enjoy this moment where we could just look at the table and look we're out of it now we're out the bottom three but we still got to go Man U next week and that was the highs then that was the lows are coming back down
[00:55:46] of knowing that you had to go to Old Trafford but we went there and got a point as well and it was brilliant I mean yeah the last few games leading into the Portsmouth game was is that's when we knew as a group that we we'd destroyed a few of the other teams mentality and like their confidence because we'd sucker punched them in getting out of the bottom three so they were a little bit deflated going into their games it's it's like like Wolves this season it's like fascinating the mentality yeah of a team that's cut adrift or seemingly cut adrift
[00:56:15] the carefree way they can then play disrupts others but then you can see actually the trapdoor might be open yeah yeah and then the mentality then so how do you go from kind of right so let's not get back in do you know what I mean yeah we've got nothing to lose just go for it and I think the main thing for like when you look at teams like Wolves this year is that they've had no chance of getting out of it so for them it was Rob Edwards just needed to go in there stabilize his club because he is his club and he's done I think he's done a fantastic job of how he stabilized
[00:56:44] it and then now they're building for next season now their championship so yeah we knew though that we always had the outside chance because it was close it was always close there was never that big gap you've never drifted yeah so we knew that if we went on this running like this run of games where we could pick up nice points and good wins we knew we had an outside chance of yeah we're closing the gap now on other teams and then other teams mentally wise they're looking at they're going oh West Brom's coming by the way we need to start picking points up and it is football's all about mindsets like it's a
[00:57:14] mind game so as soon as you start going on that run like loss run of losses and then you can see West Brom's coming it's like oh no like we can't afford to lose the next game and then we win it they're like whoa here we go lads they've gone now we've got the better of these now as well so yeah so as a lot of the games it's all about the mindset that's class I remember seeing footage of you the blonde there you and Kevin Phillips yeah
[00:57:44] that was a drinking session that was as well that was a barbecue yeah I went around Kev's house for a barbecue and his sister was a hairdresser at the time so yeah we'd had a few drinks that afternoon in his garden it was a lovely sunny day and yeah we were just sitting there enjoying ourselves and next thing we like obviously Kev's sister started putting all this blonde dye in his hand I'm thinking what are you doing like that and he had no idea what was going on so we've
[00:58:13] had to go I'll do it with you then Kev so we both ended it done my head was burning by the way it was like roasting tinfoil on there as well so obviously she knows what she's doing she's a hairdresser so I'm thinking oh she's brilliant we've both got our blonde there in the morning mine was ginger so I had to go into Solly on the next day wearing a cat ginger tinge yeah we had to go and get another like another colour that would make my hair go white sitting in the salon that's all I'm going over so obviously I'm not
[00:58:42] doing it in a salon I'm going my wife's doing it Caroline so we've ended up going in Solly on and I bumped into Dean Kylie and I'm thinking he's going take your cap off you idiot like that and I'm like no I can't do it in here mate no I'm not doing it and he was like what are you doing I said you want to see Kev's hair mate so obviously then we've both come in the next like day with training and we both got blonde hair and that was it then we were off every time we celebrated we were like that was a celebration of rubbing each other's heads and it carried on brilliant session so yeah so we so
[00:59:12] we thought we were winning he was scoring goals so we carried the trend on and that's how it carried on until he left and I was like thank God for that I've let me air go back natural now but they were good times they were good times it's a play to some players I mean it's it's weird how kind of small football is especially around the Midlands because that's on there's quite a lot of to and fro especially Blues and West Brom isn't there yeah players coming and going so who's who's the best player you've played with across your career
[00:59:41] there's there's there I've been there's so many yeah there's so many I would say obviously Jonathan Greening was he was the complete midfield player in my eyes who I played with West Brom the Kev Phillips then come who was the complete striker who scored goals so the two of them but then when I went to Bolton I had Jack Wiltshire Gary Cale unbelievable football players and that was a great squad of players here but then when you'll hear Blues like John Terrell for me stands out as technically one of the best players I've played with on a technical
[01:00:10] level he would just he'd do things where you'd go have you done that by the way then at Watford like people forget I even I forgot the players I played with Watford like your Alan Nilsson's your Ramon Baker Ronnie Rosenthal so for me like Ronnie Rosenthal when he came to like this Liverpool legend and he signed for Watford Graham Taylor had that aura of signing these players incredible to play with and I loved every minute of it so yeah but I would say out of all of them I would say Jonathan Green and Kevin
[01:00:40] Phillips are right up there with the best that I've played with that time as well obviously in a slightly different play but Zoltan Gera was a player Zoltan yeah I mean Robert Corrin as well so underrated as a midfield player but even like when you go back to Bolton as well you had like Martin Petroff Matty Taylor the winger as well up front Kevin Davis Joanne Almander Stuart Holden oh I've been lucky to play with top top players yeah I've been so lucky with the teams I played in that we've was a cut show
[01:01:10] before yeah was a cut show yeah he was there before me just before yeah he was a performer yeah they were some naughty players yeah really good players like Jocampos but again Sam Allardyce was someone who he attracted players yeah he was good 20 years ahead of his time aren't he what would he be on now contract wise no direct football and set pieces are all of a sudden like a new thing in football yeah yeah I mean yeah you think that them players now that you played against that era was a joy to play in
[01:01:38] yeah I was your Romare's your Perez's your Lumberg's who you played against it was they were the best Vieira Keane the best Barman Barman now I played against the best players that was that was it Gerard Lampard yeah you name it I got the opportunity to like share the pitch with them it was like a dream come true for me yeah was there anyone you had planned against I hated playing against Paul Scholes yeah Paul Scholes was he was a joke of a footballer but not just with the ball at his
[01:02:07] feet but he scored goals he was nasty as well I was going to say did you ever get one of these oh no he didn't mean that that's Paul Scholes he doesn't know how to tackle no I tell the story actually my wife nearly knocked him over like when we was in Portugal it was like hilarious wasn't a time for her because she had palpitations thinking that she like nearly killed Paul Scholes yeah because he was on the same development of where our villas were so as we were sort of as she was reversing the cargo going back to our villa he was walking past with his lad and then the sensors gone in the back of the car because obviously
[01:02:37] it was dark there was no lights on the car park area and as she's gone who the hell was that she's like I nearly knocked him over and I went don't worry love it it's only one of the best midfield players in the world that you've nearly knocked over and killed she went I was like Paul Scholes she was like oh no it's like England's hopes yeah but it was like one of those funny moments where your think is yeah and then I'd seen him the year after on the football pitch and we had a little chuckle about he said did your missus realise she nearly knocked me over I was like yep I reminded him of that don't worry about it
[01:03:07] but he was a joke for football yeah from an outsider watching him play I used to love watching him play watching him as a footballer watching him play was unreal to see what he could do on the football pitch Scholes Lampard or Gerrard Paul Scholes yeah Paul Scholes they're all top class players but for me Paul Scholes had everything yeah he had everything about him it was even like when the ping a corner
[01:03:36] out to him quick wasn't it and he'd volley and he'd always catch it clear bang at pace and it's just in isn't it yeah and I hate it when we compare like you say your Messis and your Rinaldos because they're totally different players and you're just like who's the best player they're both top world class players and when you like you're comparing Scholes Lampard and Gerrard they're all different players but they are world class players you can't put them all inside and we can't because they're individually they have their own brilliance and that's what's great about that era was is that they were all individually brilliant
[01:04:06] and so hard to play against or mark that was how good they were yeah so I think we touched upon it but just kind of quick fiery kind of questions to finish off so best atmosphere would you say oh god best atmosphere I think Leeds United going to Leeds so Ellyn Road I think that's always a great atmosphere here St Andrews when it's bouncing as an opposition and then playing when it gets going it's like them goosebumps that you get so yeah so I would say they're they're right up
[01:04:35] there then ones them atmospheres when they're when they're when they're bubbly and they're lively and it's electric West Ham the old Upton Park as well that was that was yeah something to like look at as well it's not so all you is now all you now is you go there now it's like it's horrendous that stadium especially for like a team like West Ham it's like their fans they must be devastated that they ended up moving there but again it's now it's the norm with teams with what they do in it but you lose that you lose that tradition don't you know as soon as you move away from your
[01:05:04] stadiums you lose like Highbury with the Emirates up to and miles away from the mighty fans like this it's a little bit different with that West Ham stadium isn't it it's not football stadiums so yeah so I would say they're the stadiums where you can feel the presence yeah one game you'd relive I would definitely relive the Wembley final Bolton Watford I'd love to relive that again saw that I saw that
[01:05:34] over a kick lifting that trophy saw that over a kick the other day again that was my first experience of playing in front of big big crowd and then also I got my under 21s call up leading into that game so as soon as the game finished I went up to the England camp yeah so I missed all the celebrations but lifting that cup was yeah it was just a proud moment obviously my club Watford as well coming through the system and getting the bounce to bounce promotions as well because the year before we got promoted from League 1 to then obviously
[01:06:04] which was the championship then yeah to the premiership was yeah it was just an unbelievable feeling yeah so I would love to relive that again promotional survival what gives you the bigger oh obviously the different yeah yeah survival for me is oh we've touched upon it yeah it's more of a relief but survival survival is like for more of the the outside for the fans the people working behind the scenes are survival but the promotions are the best they're the best they're the feelings
[01:06:34] you want they're the ones that you want on your your accolades on your CV is that I've won promotions so yeah like you say I've been lucky enough I've won four so I've loved that yeah do you like to put that out as well like to the no I don't know I don't because there's no people are looking like you are you're seen as a as a firefighter but you're not yeah I look on it I look on it foundly of my career of what I've achieved in the game is I've achieved them because of my hard work and and the teams I played in were all that it was like a winning
[01:07:03] mentality so yeah so I don't know I don't promote that sort of stuff because I'm proud of it individually of what I've achieved in my career people are looking back on it because they then will see it and they'll go oh I didn't realise and yeah but then yeah that's for them to know revisionist isn't it everything now is so instantaneous isn't no one remembers anything the internet's made everyone anything after last week they don't know what happened kind of thing and it's funny because obviously when I go back to Watford now the younger generation have no idea who I am or what I've done for the football club right
[01:07:33] and that's I smile because it's but this is this is the way football is now it's like they don't understand the history of the football club some of these fans like you understand history when I played for a football club I understood the culture and the history of the football club that was my job was to understand the fans but also to understand what I need to do to take this club to the next level and what for fans yeah some of them have no idea who I am at times to be fair most weeks I don't know who the manager is over the Vanks well that's another touch
[01:08:03] who's the best manager you've played on three I've got three so obviously Graham Taylor when I first came through the youth at Watford he was my dream manager to start my pathway off yeah a joy to be around not only as a human being but also as a manager yeah he was such a gentleman off the field with my development as a young kid and he would tell me as well which was good he never like was nice and sort of easy with me he would let me know that if I was doing things wrong I got
[01:08:33] told about it I got told to make sure I pulled my line or I was never playing for Watford Football Club again so so yeah so that was that was my first dealings with Graham who I really adored and enjoyed working for Tony Mowbray and Brian Robson were the other two West Brom yeah they were they were two that developed me then as a football player Brian Robson especially when he came in took my game to the next level with obviously getting the recognition to try and get into the England squad which was which was hard because obviously I was competing against
[01:09:03] players like Ashley Cole and Wayne Bridge which again is like it's that era but yeah but they're they're the ones who you'd love competing against because that's what you wanted to go you wanted to go head to head with them players so I had no qualms about not not getting called up because I knew that they were better players and they were playing for the top clubs at the time yeah and then Tony Mowbray again then went to that next level when we was at West Brom with that team that yeah just smashed the league in 2008 and we got we won the league yeah it was a it was an incredible season and the football we played
[01:09:33] was a joy yeah it was a joy to playing we obviously are fond of him for when he come down here and he's like a kind of midland we only got yeah we only got a glimpse didn't we unfortunately but he's still a football and everything but such a breath of fresh air yeah for those for the small period that we had to see and I think his philosophy the way that he thinks is sort of like I'm a thinker as well sort of picked up off of the three of them Graham Taylor Brian and Tony I've sort of managed all three of them to try and pick their sort of like their thinking mentality with how I yeah yeah
[01:10:03] definitely yeah so just finally then so what's what's what's the future like what's coaching obviously Oxford City yes yeah so there's still a possibility for me there next season which you got all your badges now I've got all my badges yeah so I've got all my pro licence so yeah I've got everything that I need so you could get the Chelsea job because I don't think I'll be considered you never know you never know get them one of the eight year contracts don't you yeah one day if there's an opportunity to become a manager I'd love the opportunity you
[01:10:32] obviously go for jobs not experienced enough that's what you get told and that's I think that's the hardest thing knowing that you've done everything that you feel you deserve to be given an opportunity but then you get told that you've not got the experience but then you see these younger coaches now that have just come out of the game and they're getting the opportunities but they've got no experience so yeah so I find it hard but I'm keep my head down keep doing what I'm doing I love what I do I love working at Oxford I've loved it this year with helping them survive in the National League
[01:11:02] North and yeah they've got a great group of players great great group of staff members working in the background and yeah I've loved my time there so yeah I'm just gonna I'm just gonna keep enjoying it and if there's a possibility of a manager's job it'd be hard to turn it down if you're given the opportunity it's something that I would love to get on my CV as well and have the opportunity of doing it if I don't do it well well at least I've had that chance and I can say I yeah well who knows but who knows if I if you're not given that chance I'm never gonna know yeah how easy was it to get into coaching
[01:11:31] how did you find the transition it's hard to get into coaching but obviously that my transition was brilliant obviously being here Gary Monk was the manager at the time he saw what I was like and I worked closely with Richard Bill with the under-21s yeah and we had a real good like a good group of players who were involved with the first team but also went out and got some good loan moves as well where they went and developed as players and then obviously it all changed it all went downhill from there for me with with my coaching which was hard
[01:12:00] but again it was a learning curve for me of what my playing career was all about was is that I've got to bounce back I can't let people affect me in that way so yeah so I've got myself back to a level of where I've coached in the championship with Millwall with Watford and I've really enjoyed then times and then I've now had to take a job in the National League North which I don't have a problem with because I just love any level I love developing people and helping people but there's that bit inside of me that burning desire that knows I'm good enough to
[01:12:30] do it at the top and I want to be given that opportunity at some point but who knows when that will happen. Well we knew it as fans I think you probably agree that we knew on the pitch You can see players you can see certain players I'd imagine the players in the changing room have probably said if you could name one or two people you'd be on the list to say Robbo would be good as a coach because you were doing that through your playing career. I'd love to one day again look it's my career is not going to last forever because I'm going to have to come to
[01:13:00] one point where I want to retire and enjoy life with my family a little bit more and switch off with it but one of my clubs I played for I'd love to be given the opportunity I would love to be given the opportunity to lead them and take them as far as I can that would be my dream job but yeah who knows. Class. So finally finally finally message to the Blues fans down here down the Blues for next season. I just think just keep doing what you do I mean that you you drive the team forward with your
[01:13:29] support home and away I mean I was I was inspired by the the numbers that travelled even though we weren't going through some good times you you always spent your money and and you got right behind the team so yeah keep believing keep being positive there's there's good times ahead but I see that I believe in that and I think the team next season they've got to kick on and look look for the premiership that's what they've got to do and yeah I think it's going to be an exciting season but yeah for the Blues fans it was yeah I know I really appreciate your support when I was here as a player but
[01:13:58] also as a coach it means a lot to me and yeah just keep getting beyond the team and keep pushing them forward. Class. Cheers Robert. No worries. Thank you very much fellas. Cheers mate. If you like this video please do click to subscribe to the channel we currently have five and a half thousand members over half a million views so let's convert some views into memberships and that will continue to enable us to bring great guests on and continue making great podcasts. Thanks.